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So I was wondering which I should use. I have a squad of close combat boyz and a few squads of shoota boyz. I was thinking of putting the Rokkits on my CC boyz and putting BS on my shoota boyz. Yes or no?

Yeah, most players go in that direction. Shoota boys get more advantage out of the big shoota longer range as they tend to be further from the enemy. But given the short range of a plain shoota, other players prefer rokkits for shoota boys and no special weapons for CC boys.

It also depends on what other long range shooting you have in your army, e.g. buggies and koptas. some big shootas somewhere certainly have their place, even at BS 2

Yeah, big shootas are better against just about everything besides vehicles and MCs (non 2+), have longer range, and are only minimally worse than MEQs, HOWEVER, with the abundance of cover in 5th edition, the big shoota will still be a better bet for MEQs. You're boys should be focusing on troops anyway. Plus they're cheaper. And longer range. It goes on.

Special weapons don't belong in dedicated cc ork boy units... because they are either mounted (transport moving too fast to shoot) or the squad is running (gives up shooting for the extra d6"). However its more of a flavor choice as to BS or rokkits in shoota squads.

On the contrary, I don't use Big Shootas/Rokkits because I want that Run move in the shooting phase

Don't bother with big shootas or rocket launchas for slugga boys. Get big shootas for your shoota boys, as they will likely be shooting against infantry anyway. If I read the rules correctly, you can upgrade the nob's slugga to a big shoota. Ranged anti-tank comes in better forms, like lootas, warbuggies and kannons.

Big Shootas for Shoota Boyz. Sluggas are better off running so any points spent on weapons with them are largely wasted.

You can get a twin linked Rokkit buggy for 35 points. There's the real unit to put Rokkits on.

Thanks everyone. I'll update my new army list and hope it works out.

I don't understand the thought on putting rokkits on boyz. 1 shot and BS 2 is bad and to me a waste of points. Big shootas have 3 shots, giving Orks a reasonable shot to get a hit.

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:I don't understand the thought on putting rokkits on boyz. 1 shot and BS 2 is bad and to me a waste of points. Big shootas have 3 shots, giving Orks a reasonable shot to get a hit.

Tankshock insurance and orks need as much anti tank as they can get?

As everyone said, Rokkits are a waste on Boyz. Big shootas only for Shoota boyz. Sound advice.

I have 3 rokkit boyz right now. Should I dismantle them and make them into slugga or shoota boyz?

Man, before 5th, rokkits were the default choice for boys...wow, how things have changed....

*shrug*

Yes, rokkits are a waste of points in everything but Kans, Koptas and Buggies.

Alright, I'll strip them for bitz and reassemble them. Thanks Prophet.

Arbalest wrote: If I read the rules correctly, you can upgrade the nob's slugga to a big shoota.

I just checked the codex and can confirm you read the rules wrong.

A nob in a boyz squad cannot have a Big Shoota.

Here's my take on it:

Big Shootas do very little that shootas cannot do. They do very little that your boyz cannot accomplish in assault.

Rokkits have the same range as shootas, so if you're going to get close enough to use your shootas, you'll be close enough to fire the rokkits.

I think that, at most, one squad should have big shootas, and that would be a squad that was purposed for sitting on the objective in your deployment zone and using the 36" range. But, this almost seems like a waste of points when you can have grots hold your home objective much cheaper.

Anything that is going forwards gets rokkits. Three rokkits will get move average hits per turn than one space-marine missile launcher. The rokkit does things that the boyz don't necessarily do well. Rokkits knock out vindicators.

Big shootas, while nice, and cheaper, don't really add anything to the capability of the unit, especially a shoota boy unit. If you're spending the points for 30 shootas, do you really want to keep them at long-range in order to fire 9 shots? Or do you want to run on the first turn and unleash 60ish shoota shots on turn 2? I think that's a no-brainer.

Hmm, Redbeard thank you for posting. I might not dismantle the rokkit boyz just yet. I wouldn't just use shootas to hold an objective. Grotz work just as well. I would move everything forward, Waaagh! then rape. But your post was informative and helped me come to a decision. Thanks.

TheBloodGod wrote:

Arbalest wrote: If I read the rules correctly, you can upgrade the nob's slugga to a big shoota.

I just checked the codex and can confirm you read the rules wrong.

A nob in a boyz squad cannot have a Big Shoota.

On page 100 of Codex: Orks, it says "For every ten Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota..."

A nob is an Ork, therefore nobs can exchange their sluggas for heavier weapons.

Arbalest wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:

Arbalest wrote: If I read the rules correctly, you can upgrade the nob's slugga to a big shoota.

I just checked the codex and can confirm you read the rules wrong.

A nob in a boyz squad cannot have a Big Shoota.

On page 100 of Codex: Orks, it says "For every ten Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota..."

A nob is an Ork, therefore nobs can exchange their sluggas for heavier weapons.

The nob does count for the total for the unit & counts towards the one-in-every-ten orks, but a nob has its own equipement to choose from. It only has that equipement to choose from.

The thing is, why would you be shooting a tank with a shoota unit when you can do it with better dedicated anti vehicle units in your army? You need to spend 30 points in 3 rokkits for an average hit on a anything, then you gotta roll for pen and dmg against vehicles. 30 points is a lot, and it's not like boyz squads are tac squads that can do whatever. Boyz will always be anti-infantry, why spend 15 additional points to take rokkits over shootas just to get a remote chance of blowing up a vehicle you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

Besides, Big Shootas don't do little that shootas can't do. The range allows them to fire when in the back of the formation when menauvering thru terrain, the extra shot averages more hits, the extra strenght averages more wounds. For 5 extra points.

Rokkits on the other hand are worst against non-MEQs, wastes the other shootas when firing on a vehicle and cost twice than a big shoota. Models > Bling.

But.. and this has been pointed out in other threads..

FIRST you buy that boy a Big Shoota.. then, buy him the Nob upgrade. Do that in that order, and you certainly CAN have a Nob with Big Shoota.

Prophet of Dakka wrote:The thing is, why would you be shooting a tank with a shoota unit when you can do it with better dedicated anti vehicle units in your army? You need to spend 30 points in 3 rokkits for an average hit on a anything, then you gotta roll for pen and dmg against vehicles. 30 points is a lot, and it's not like boyz squads are tac squads that can do whatever. Boyz will always be anti-infantry, why spend 15 additional points to take rokkits over shootas just to get a remote chance of blowing up a vehicle you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

Because sometimes you're going to end up playing against a guy who is running 6 wave serpents, or devilfish, and you're not going to have any infantry to hit. Even a mechanized guard company will cause you problems as chimeras are AV12 on the front.

30 points for rokkits isn't that much. And, what do you do when your opponent gets the first turn and kills your dedicated anti-tank squad with a pie-plate? Do you just concede that their tanks will run roughshod over your guys for the rest of the game? How many dedicated anti-tank units are you fielding?

An ork boy squad is every bit as versatile as a Tac squad when set up right. Is a tac squad wasting their 9 bolters when the guy with the rocket launcher fires it? Why would you assume that it's any worse to do the same with a boyz squad. They're troops, they're meant to be versatile. Consider that you pay less for a 20-boy squad (with PK nob, and 2 rokkits) than you do for a ten-man tac squad with a missile launcher, and PF sgt. You no more waste your time shooting the rokkits than they do shooting the missile launcher. And, if you go up to 30 boyz and 3 rokkits, you're more likely to accomplish something than they are too.

Prophet of Dakka wrote:The thing is, why would you be shooting a tank with a shoota unit when you can do it with better dedicated anti vehicle units in your army? You need to spend 30 points in 3 rokkits for an average hit on a anything, then you gotta roll for pen and dmg against vehicles. 30 points is a lot, and it's not like boyz squads are tac squads that can do whatever. Boyz will always be anti-infantry, why spend 15 additional points to take rokkits over shootas just to get a remote chance of blowing up a vehicle you shouldn't be shooting in the first place.

Besides, Big Shootas don't do little that shootas can't do. The range allows them to fire when in the back of the formation when menauvering thru terrain, the extra shot averages more hits, the extra strenght averages more wounds. For 5 extra points.

Rokkits on the other hand are worst against non-MEQs, wastes the other shootas when firing on a vehicle and cost twice than a big shoota. Models > Bling.

Put simply, rokkits aren't that good against the things you tend to be shooting at with Shoota Boyz.

Redbeard wrote:Because sometimes you're going to end up playing against a guy who is running 6 wave serpents, or devilfish, and you're not going to have any infantry to hit. Even a mechanized guard company will cause you problems as chimeras are AV12 on the front.

30 points for rokkits isn't that much. And, what do you do when your opponent gets the first turn and kills your dedicated anti-tank squad with a pie-plate? Do you just concede that their tanks will run roughshod over your guys for the rest of the game? How many dedicated anti-tank units are you fielding?

An ork boy squad is every bit as versatile as a Tac squad when set up right. Is a tac squad wasting their 9 bolters when the guy with the rocket launcher fires it? Why would you assume that it's any worse to do the same with a boyz squad. They're troops, they're meant to be versatile. Consider that you pay less for a 20-boy squad (with PK nob, and 2 rokkits) than you do for a ten-man tac squad with a missile launcher, and PF sgt. You no more waste your time shooting the rokkits than they do shooting the missile launcher. And, if you go up to 30 boyz and 3 rokkits, you're more likely to accomplish something than they are too.

It's still about the kind of target you shoot at with Shoota Boyz most frequently. If you're going in knowing you're facing an armored company or 6 Wave Serpents, fine, adjust the list. But you're usually not. And therefore usually you can get by with your multiple Lootas, Buggies, Kannons, Deffkoptas, Kans, etc. for antitank.

I thought like you did at first. But I found the Rokkits tremendously underwhelming. Forget about their effectiveness...half the time I never even shot them at anything worthwhile. And then I really warmed up to Big Shootas. IIRC, Marc Parker's GT-winning Ork army spammed Big Shootas, with nary a Rokkit in the army.

double post

gorgon wrote:
It's still about the kind of target you shoot at with Shoota Boyz most frequently.

I still disagree with this sentiment. Not to mention that it's also wrong. The majority of opponents play with 3+ save armies. If you run the numbers, a rokkit is better against a model with 3+ than a big shoota. (Rokkit - 1/3 hits * 5/6 wounds = 5/18. Big shoota = 3*1/3 hit * 2/3rd wound * 1/3 save = 4/18).

So, against the things I'm going to be shooting most often (heavy infantry), the rokkit is the better choice. Against the general field, it is more versatile. And you still want a big shoota? Seems foolish to me.

If you're going in knowing you're facing an armored company or 6 Wave Serpents, fine, adjust the list.

Can you do that each round of a tournament? I haven't found that to be the case. If you're playing for fun, well, take whatever you want.

And therefore usually you can get by with your multiple Lootas, Buggies, Kannons, Deffkoptas, Kans, etc. for antitank.

Since the advent of 5th edition, I haven't run buggies, kannons, koptas, or kans. They give up kill points way too easily compared to simply running more boyz, or hard stuff like nobs. Lootas are good, but your opponent also knows that and knows to take them out first.

I thought like you did at first. But I found the Rokkits tremendously underwhelming. Forget about their effectiveness...half the time I never even shot them at anything worthwhile. And then I really warmed up to Big Shootas.

If that's your experience, so be it. Mine is the opposite. Boys in trukks get nothing, boyz on foot get rokkits unless they're planning to hold the home objective, in which case they can have big shootas. The rokkits may not have an impact in every game, but every tournament I've taken the boyz to, the rokkits prove invaluable in at least one of the three games.

IIRC, Marc Parker's GT-winning Ork army spammed Big Shootas, with nary a Rokkit in the army.

I think that had far more to do with the synergy between Ghazgull, Grotsnik, and 'ard boyz, and very little to do with the choice of big shootas or rokkits. I'd bet he'd do just as well without using any weapon upgrades. Ghaz, Grotsnik & ard-boyz are a seriously hard unit to crack.

Redbeard wrote:I still disagree with this sentiment. Not to mention that it's also wrong. The majority of opponents play with 3+ save armies. If you run the numbers, a rokkit is better against a model with 3+ than a big shoota. (Rokkit - 1/3 hits * 5/6 wounds = 5/18. Big shoota = 3*1/3 hit * 2/3rd wound * 1/3 save = 4/18).

So, against the things I'm going to be shooting most often (heavy infantry), the rokkit is the better choice. Against the general field, it is more versatile. And you still want a big shoota? Seems foolish to me.

I think maybe the effect of cover is an important point here too.

When you figure the BS outperforms vs. MEq in cover, has a 12" longer range and is more cost-effective, I think it deserves some strong consideration.

It's true -- rokkits have added utility in that they can be used to take down vehicles. They're terrible at it, but they can do it. Perhaps it's best to say that the choice might depend on your army build.

Can you do that each round of a tournament? I haven't found that to be the case. If you're playing for fun, well, take whatever you want.

I don't know that we were specifically talking about tournies here. And if we were, I don't know how armored company has any relevance.

Since the advent of 5th edition, I haven't run buggies, kannons, koptas, or kans. They give up kill points way too easily compared to simply running more boyz, or hard stuff like nobs. Lootas are good, but your opponent also knows that and knows to take them out first.

And I think here's where some context is probably required in both our answers. If your army includes (I don't actually know) 4 30-boy mobs, then I understand your thinking. It sounds like the OP is running 2 footslogging mobs, and maybe not even at full strength. In that case, my gut tells me 4 or maybe 6 rokkits will be a waste of points more often than not.

Rokkits are terrible against tanks?

Like Space Marine and Guard Missile launchers, meltas over half range and other str. 8 guns?

As an ork player with 3 20 strong shoota boyz mobs, I always take rokkits. Only one in 3 hits, but thats still 2 str. 8 hits on a tank, which can do some decent damage. Besides, I'd only save 30 pts, and that isn't really much.

Razerous wrote:

Arbalest wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:

Arbalest wrote: If I read the rules correctly, you can upgrade the nob's slugga to a big shoota.

I just checked the codex and can confirm you read the rules wrong.

A nob in a boyz squad cannot have a Big Shoota.

On page 100 of Codex: Orks, it says "For every ten Orks in the mob, one Ork may exchange his slugga or shoota..."

A nob is an Ork, therefore nobs can exchange their sluggas for heavier weapons.

The nob does count for the total for the unit & counts towards the one-in-every-ten orks, but a nob has its own equipement to choose from. It only has that equipement to choose from.

I had asked this same question a few months back and the general consences was that a Nob is an Ork and therfore can carry a Big shoota..also on page 88 of the Ork codex we see a picture of a Nob with a Big shoota (?????).
In my own army my shoota boys utilize 3 Big shootaz & yes one BS is toted by a Nob.