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Hey guys, so my guard got trounced last night by my friend's nid army pretty much entirely through the use of the vague multiple assaulting rules in the BBB. the rest of my friends agreed his interpretation was right at the time so I didn't argue but by my reading I don't think its cut and dry. Sorry if this is a bit of a long one but could use some confirmation.

So here is the first scenario.

I have a unit of heavy bolters about 3 inches away from my leman russ. He has a unit of genestealers outflank and then fleet pretty much in between the two units. He then declares his assault again the tank. He takes three of his models and engages the tank and then takes the rest into the heavy bolters. In this case I think he may have been right. On page 34 of the book when it talks about multiple assaults it says the following.


"As usual the closest attacking model must be moved to contact the closest model in the enemy unit against which the assault was declared. Then remaining models
can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models. Remember that the assaulting unit is
not allowed to break its unit coherency, and this will obviously limit the potential for this kind of assault."

These are the rules all assaulting units must adhere to before being allowed to assault.

1) The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.
2) If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model.
3) If there are no such models in reach, the model must move into base contact with an enemy model that is already in base contact with an assaulting model.
4) If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it must try to move within 2" of one of its own unit’s models that is already in base contact with an enemy.
5) If this is impossible, it must simply stay in coherency used to contact enemy units that are not currently involved in the assault.

So they interpreted this as the first model assaults the tank. Therefore initial criteria is met. He places the model 2 inches away from the heavy bolter squad. Then he places three models in contact with the heavy bolter squad and then the remaining two in contact with the tank. Is this in fact the correct way to do things. OR does one of 2 things have to occur.
Does he
1) have engage the remaining heavy bolter models with all of his genestealers becasue before he can double up he has to assign units to every open base
or
2) Before he can assault the heavy bolter unit have to first attack all open areas on the tank.

The second scenario is similar but I think more iffy
Tank is 6 inches away from a unite of line guardsmen 10 models. He assaults the guard unit. Since I have 10 models and he only has 6 does he have to attack the closest unengaged model I.E. all the damage guardsmen before he can then place models assaulting the tank? By my interpretation I think he has to. Am I correct?

Thanks for any feedback.

Lastly if someone can give me a definite example of when you can and can't assault multiple units I would greatly appriciate it. I'm usually really good on rules but this just seems like blatant exploitation. I.E. have a 6 model unit attack or even 3 different units at one time because my deployment zone is so small.

The first scenario was played correctly. The Second is iffy. At the end of an assault move each model has to be: 1. Based with an enemy model. 2. In coherency with it's own unit. 3. In coherency with it's own unit, if it cannot reach any enemy models.

So, the only way to assault two units that are greater than @4" from each other, is to have some models that cannot reach the primary unit but can still make a coherency chain to base the second unit.

Remember, a model MUST Base another model if able.

just so long he answers to coherency, then base to base with an enemy model. (note AFTER he places his first model to the closes model he assaulted.) if he can be base to base with any other enemy model. he just follows coherency.

Thanks guys makes more sense. Basically it was legit the first time and not the other two. Makes me feel better next time it comes up.

Please note - it is possible to assault multiple units that are ridiculous distances away from each other...I've used genestealers to assault units that are 8-9" without too much difficulty, and with units like bloodcrushers, that have larger bases, assaulting units that are 14-18" apart isn't impossible.

All you have to do is move models during the movement and/or shooting phase (if you have fleet) so that they will not be able to make base contact with a model in the primary target unit. That lets you immediately span a 4" gap, at minimum (depending on the assaulter's base size). For every extra three inches, you need a model that cannot make base contact with a model, and also cannot make 2" of the first model moved.

The REALLY important thing is that assault moves happen sequentially...you move models one at a time. Also, the order in which models are moved is entirely up to the assaulting player.

Really, it's so ridiculously easy to multi-charge units that people's default position should be to accept it when it happens. I'm really getting tired of having to walk opponents through the assault movement rules.

How does this work with shooting? Can't you only assault who you shoot? So, if I did this with a horde of Shoota Boyz, I could potentially still assault two units?

Yes, as long as you move the first model along the shortest path possible into btb with a member of the unit you shot at.

I dont know if I quite believe the fact you can assualt two units that are 8 inchs apart. All your models have to be in combat with some one. you cannot have one model just hanging out in the open with no one to attack just so you have models in coherency and able to span that 8 inch gap.

the most i could see you gap is 6, Model in base to base with enemy. model 2 inchs away. (2) model 2 inchs away from that towards lets say the tank (makes 4) another model in base with the tank (6) That is the farthest I could see happening without breaking the rules.

Centurian99 wrote:Please note - it is possible to assault multiple units that are ridiculous distances away from each other...I've used genestealers to assault units that are 8-9" without too much difficulty, and with units like bloodcrushers, that have larger bases, assaulting units that are 14-18" apart isn't impossible.

All you have to do is move models during the movement and/or shooting phase (if you have fleet) so that they will not be able to make base contact with a model in the primary target unit. That lets you immediately span a 4" gap, at minimum (depending on the assaulter's base size). For every extra three inches, you need a model that cannot make base contact with a model, and also cannot make 2" of the first model moved.

The REALLY important thing is that assault moves happen sequentially...you move models one at a time. Also, the order in which models are moved is entirely up to the assaulting player.

Really, it's so ridiculously easy to multi-charge units that people's default position should be to accept it when it happens. I'm really getting tired of having to walk opponents through the assault movement rules.

Yeah, I can see (have done/been done to) how that works.

The problem is - its a very powerful manouver. People wont like it. Second (and arguably most importantly) its a very complex tactic - its prone to alot of different errors in the many steps you have to utilize one-by-one to pull it off. For exact, precise measurements - I suggest using tiny blobs of blue tac, so you are able to remove the models & measure without parallax or knocking models in either units. Better than doing it with dice as dice are just as vunerable to being nudged.

As a counter to this tactic - either have wave-line gunlines. You will either have to travel greater distances to charge the "lulls" of the wave or if the "crest" is charged, the "lull" should be able to be reached. Another more obvious tactic is using concentric shield walls. A 7+ semi-circle line of guardsmen should be able to full cover the front end of a tank. More and you can quite easily cover the sides aswell, prevent all problems with multi-charging outflanking stealers.

a flank attack or a focused flank deepstrike would render half the shooting of the "shield wall" useless.

Golga wrote:I dont know if I quite believe the fact you can assualt two units that are 8 inchs apart. All your models have to be in combat with some one. you cannot have one model just hanging out in the open with no one to attack just so you have models in coherency and able to span that 8 inch gap.

the most i could see you gap is 6, Model in base to base with enemy. model 2 inchs away. (2) model 2 inchs away from that towards lets say the tank (makes 4) another model in base with the tank (6) That is the farthest I could see happening without breaking the rules.

Here's the diagram I posted in another thread. Hopefully you'll now understand how it works:

The most important thing to understand about moving into assault is that its done on a model by model basis. Assuming that you're assaulting, you move the closest model into assault, and then the order in which you move models is entirely up to you.

So in this situation, the assaulting unit has moved into the position as indicated below. Enemy models are represented by E, and assaulting models are positiioned as shown.

EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE


........1
............2...3...4...5
..........6...7...8

Closest model moves first, so #1 moves as such:


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1


............2...3...4...5
..........6...7...8

Now the choice as to which model moves next is up to you, so you can choose to move model 6, which is too far away to make base, so it just needs to move into coherency:


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1
............6

............2...3...4...5
...............7...8

Next, you move model #8, which is too far away to get within 2" of model 1, so it just has to maintain coherency with a model that's already moved:

EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1
............6...8

............2...3...4...5
...............7

Now next, you choose to move model 5, which can reach the other squad while maintaining coherency with 8.


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1...........5
............6...8

............2...3...4...5
...............7

The rest of the movement doesn't matter, as you're just trying to get as many models as possible into those assaults.

Wait, you could leave models that are outside of base-to-base to maintain coherency? What about after the pile in move, isn't that mandatory?

SmoovKriminal wrote:Wait, you could leave models that are outside of base-to-base to maintain coherency? What about after the pile in move, isn't that mandatory?

Not sure what you're asking. Once you're done moving all them models in the assaulting unit, they'll have to be in coherency, but actually moving into assault is done on a model by model basis, and each model has to move so that it maintain coherency with a model that's already moved.

Pile-in moves aren't a part of this situation at all.

I play IG (gunline) and have gone up against one of our local powergamers (nice guy, just likes to make really strong armies!) who runs with Daemons and Ork hordes.

Multicharge is extremely powerful, and not that hard to pull off.


He uses two units of seven Bloodcrushers, spreads them out and is able to hit 2-3 units with each unit.

And do not forget, combat resolution takes into account ALL the wounds done in all the combats. So if one guard unit looses 1 guy, another guard unit 6" away looses 2 guys, and a LRBT takes a "weapon destroyed" and "immobile", you Leadership test for all the units is at a -5

Brutal stuff. You best bet is to move a unit right in front of the potential assaulter on your turn, in order to limit the amount of units he can charge.

Centurian99 wrote:Pile-in moves aren't a part of this situation at all.

Assuming that all 3 units did not fall back, would units 6 and 8 (in the example) just move up a bit but not in base to base to keep coherency correct?


A similar question, can IC/MC multicharge? Rereading the assault sequence I'm not sure they can anymore. The assaulting unit has to move using the shortest possible route which would be a straight line if nothing is in the way. There is no way to contact a second unit if that is the only legal move.

It's been that way since 4th.

Really? Hmm, I see people do it all the time with dreads and bloodthirsters. Guess Ill start calling people on it.

I think it is possible to base a second unit with a MC (alot less likely with a IC) buuuut it would have to be near perfect conditions/placement for the opponent to have set up which should never happen.

Imagine getting a charge-distance radius (lets just called it 6") placing it from the lead-man on unit A. Now draw a circle from the centre of this guys base (well from the egde, but pointing directly outwards). Now if a MC can travel from the egde of this circle into base contact with this lead-man while at the same time basing another model from it different unit..it could multi-charge.

What you cant do is attack a model/unit side-on so that you can bridge the gap between units. It basically has to be a direct stright line from the charge.


If you remember & imagine that, multi-charges from MC's or (if you imagine a bit harder) any unit will be alot easier to avoid.

As an imperial guard player, I can safely say it's all about position. Well positioned forces are harder to multi-charge.

Actually, pg 34, 3rd paragraph states:

"the model selected must be the one closest to the enemy", so you couldn't move model 6 before model 2

brainpsyk wrote:Actually, pg 34, 3rd paragraph states:

"the model selected must be the one closest to the enemy", so you couldn't move model 6 before model 2

You are mistaken. Your quote applies to the model selected to move first. That first model must be the closest one to the enemy, but that restriction does not apply to the rest of the assault. Paragraph four: "After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in the unit in any sequence you desire."

Multi-charging with a single-model unit is pretty much impossible. About the only thing I can think of that could do it would be a Heirophant, Soul Grinder, or Defiler, not being mounted on bases, they essentially have square bases.

And Solkan hit it on the head...closest to closest only applies to the first model moved.

You can't multi charge with a single model unit, but it isn't because of the closest to closest bit.

It says the first model must assault the target unit, then remaining models may assault other units. It also says you can't get into base with a unit you are not assaulting.

Centurian99 wrote:

Golga wrote:I dont know if I quite believe the fact you can assualt two units that are 8 inchs apart. All your models have to be in combat with some one. you cannot have one model just hanging out in the open with no one to attack just so you have models in coherency and able to span that 8 inch gap.

the most i could see you gap is 6, Model in base to base with enemy. model 2 inchs away. (2) model 2 inchs away from that towards lets say the tank (makes 4) another model in base with the tank (6) That is the farthest I could see happening without breaking the rules.

Here's the diagram I posted in another thread. Hopefully you'll now understand how it works:

The most important thing to understand about moving into assault is that its done on a model by model basis. Assuming that you're assaulting, you move the closest model into assault, and then the order in which you move models is entirely up to you.

So in this situation, the assaulting unit has moved into the position as indicated below. Enemy models are represented by E, and assaulting models are positiioned as shown.

EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE


........1
............2...3...4...5
..........6...7...8

Closest model moves first, so #1 moves as such:


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1


............2...3...4...5
..........6...7...8

Now the choice as to which model moves next is up to you, so you can choose to move model 6, which is too far away to make base, so it just needs to move into coherency:


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1
............6

............2...3...4...5
...............7...8

Next, you move model #8, which is too far away to get within 2" of model 1, so it just has to maintain coherency with a model that's already moved:

EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1
............6...8

............2...3...4...5
...............7

Now next, you choose to move model 5, which can reach the other squad while maintaining coherency with 8.


EEEE..............EEEE
EEEE..............EEEE
........1...........5
............6...8

............2...3...4...5
...............7

The rest of the movement doesn't matter, as you're just trying to get as many models as possible into those assaults.

Very nice!

Thank you for the tip.

GG