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HQ
Lord in Term Armour 140
MoK
LC

Elites
4 Chaos Terminators 200
IoK
2xPFist&combi-melta
2xLC

5 Chosen 180
IoCG
4xmeltaguns
AC w/PFist, Personal Icon

Troops
10 Berzerkers - Champ w/PFist 250
Rhino w/Extra Armor 50
10 Berzerkers - Champ w/PFist, Personal Icon 255
Rhino w/Extra Armor 50
10 Berzerkers - Champ w/PW, Meltabombs, Personal Icon 250
Rhino w/Extra Armor 50

Fast Attack
3 Bikers 159
AC w/PW,Meltabombs
2xMeltagun


Total: 1499


I am going for a very mobile close combat army with a minimum of armor (outside of rhinos). I would infiltrate the chosen and speed boost the bikes for the invulnerable sve first turn. These serve as my antitank units and the Chosen provide an infiltrated area to deep strike the terminators. I help guarantee the deep strike with Icons on two of the Zerk swuads as well, as they get into combat as fast as possible. The Rhinos, once disembarked, can be used to direct enemy fire and provide cover for the bikes, whose mobility will be useful in popping tanks out of range of the chosen.

So, any tips on how I can make this list better?

No comments?

Take a daemon weapon for your Chaos Lord. It is much better than a LC. You are better off with a fist in every berzerker squad instead of PW and melta bombs.

A generic Daemon Weapon or the Khorne one?

The Chosen look like they should have a transport. Footsloggers with Melta Guns don't seem terribly good.

I like the Khorne Theme, but you might have a problem with objective missions, as the Bezerkers want to assault, not hold an objective. A compromise might be swapping one bezerker squad for 'generic' CSM with 'support' weapons and giving a Rhino to the Chosen.

You dont get the choice. Demon weapons work of which marks a lord has, so a lord with the mark of khorne will always have the khorne demon weapon.

You will have trouble with tanks. Suicide chosen and a few bikes arent enough to deal with more than a couple of vehicles, but if you dont want to pick up any more armour (ie landraiders) then you cant really solve this. I would suggest taking a demon prince instead of a lord though (with warptime and wings, not MoK).

You dont need extra armour on your rhinos. Negating that 1/6 chance just isnt worth the 15pts. Spend the points on getting a demon prince instead

Chaos bikes dont do anything that couldnt be done better with raptors instead. With the points you save from the extra armour (minus the points you spend on the demon prince) you can have a squad a 5 raptors with IoK, 2 meltas and a champion with a power weapon. Thats more attacks and more wounds for the same price, its a much better deal.

Alright a khorne army is downright deadly but you need some stuff to soften them up and maybe a little fine tuning.

Lord and Termies: Well, I think this is a little iffy. Looks like you are planning to port them in off of your icons. That means one turn of standing out in front for all to be seen. Squad of 5 khorne termies means I want to kill it so it is going to get shot to pieces.
I would either lose it or get them a cadillac. A land raider also gives you a little more AT power and a nice piece of mobile cover for your berzerkers marching up in rhinos.

Rhinos: Lose the extra armor. It helps but at 15 points, I think you will find it doesn't help an 11/11/10 vehicle all that much. Use your smoke on turn one and count on that. Instead think about a pintle-mounted combi-melta or the Havoc Missile Launcher. The melta gives you one AT shot, the HML lets you cut hoards down to size. (10 berzerkers is scary to face but not when I have unscathed mobz of 20+ boyz that you have to wade through.)

Chosen: Do a mix of 3 meltas + 2 flamers and put them inside a rhino with a combi-melta. Now they can outflank, and you have the rhino target one juicy vehicle while two guys pop out of the top... 2 meltas for another vehicle or 2 flamers to reduce some juicy troopers. If you can find a way to do it, get at least one more squad of chosen in a rhino. Outflanking works 2/3s of the time to get them to the flank you want. One will screw up but it should be hard to get both to pop in on the wrong flank.

Berzerkers: I like your 2nd squad outfit of berzerkers, I would just duplicate that for the other two. (PF, Personal Icon, 10x Berzerkers)

Bikes: Bikes are nice but look at your army, you are presenting your opponent with nothing but rhinos to shoot at EXCEPT for 3 bikes.
Guess what one target my heavy bolters are going to shoot at? Lose them for a downpayment on the terminator's landraider. ( or the Tau gunline of firewarriors, sterngard, etc.)

Lesser demons: Instead of dropping in terminators, what about lesser deamons? They can be used to enhance your berzerkers or to run back and hold objectives... keeps your berzerkers doing their job... assaulting.

A final option would be to go down to two berzerker squads and get them both in landraiders. You can't move, disembark and assault from rhinos. You CAN from landraiders.

Just another thought... if you abandon the terminators and don't go to landraiders, put your chaos lord in power armor and lose one berzerker so he can ride with a berzerker squad. The 2 LC lord is dependable, the khorne daemon blade will win or lose battles for you... (Average of 10 attacks 67% or 0 attacks and 1 wound on you 33%.) Note that on average you lord will be dead by the end of every battle.


Here is a list we worked up for a friend at 1850.

Lord: MoK, Daemon Blade 140

Elite: 5 Chosen- 3 Meltaguns, 2 Flamers 130 + Rhino w Combi-melta 45 (175)
Elite: AS ABOVE


Troop: 7 Berzerkers + Scull Champion with PF + Rhino w HML 50 258
Troop: AS ABOVE
Troop: AS ABOVE
Troop: 6 Berzerkers + Scull Champion w PF + Rhino w Combi-Melta 45 232

Heavy: Defiler w 4 CCW 150
Heavy: AS ABOVE
Heavy: AS ABOVE

1846

Defilers use their cannons against hoard armies or fleet along with the berzerkers.

The alternative was to lose the defilers, the 3 rhinos on the 8-man squads and lose the 4th squad.
That frees 832 points... 3 landraiders with possession for 720 add a personal icon on the lord 5 and
then 8 lesser demons for 104 points.

fatal_GRACE wrote:HQ
Lord in Term Armour 140
MoK
LC

Elites
4 Chaos Terminators 200
IoK
2xPFist&combi-melta
2xLC

5 Chosen 170
4xmeltaguns
AC w/PFist, Personal Icon

Troops
9 Berzerkers - Champ w/PFist, Personal Icon 234
Rhino 35
9 Berzerkers - Champ w/PFist, Personal Icon 234
Rhino 35
9 Berzerkers - Champ w/PFist, Personal Icon 234
Rhino 35

Fast Attack
5 Raptors 180
IoK
2x meltagun
AC w/PW


Total: 1497

I was actually considering swapping out the bikes for raptors already, so that was an easy change to make. I want to keep the army as fluffy as possible, and the idea of a Khorne army being led by a psyker is just wrong, so no DP with Warptime. I dropped the extra armor to make room for the raptors, and it was at that point that I realized I had forgotten to count the cost of the rhinos in my total, so I had to drop the IoCG from the Chosen, as well as one berzerker from each squad.

The Chosen are going to Infiltrate, so giving them a rhino kind of defeats the purpose.

I know it's not perfect, but any more tips would be helpful.

The main logic behind not getting any additional armor is more related to time and money - I just dont have the resources to purchase, build, and paint a huge Land Raider. I already own the Terminator Lrod (the other reason I dont want to go DP), the termies, and the zerkers. I was thinking about dropping the chosen and the Raptors eventually in lieu of a Land Raider and a Pred or a Vindicator, once I have more time and money to spare for armor.


Edit for DAaddict's post: Unfortunately, most of those changes require one or more Land Raiders, which I just can't do right now. The Terminators have to stay for similar reasons; I already own them. Also, I really like the look and power behind them, so I will keep them.

Ahhh, time & money... well in that case maybe list what other options you do have that didn't make the list. That may help us in providing some alternatives.

Most of what I have is in the list. I also have a squad of Daemons, and I am thinking about putting them in based on your first reply, DAaddict. I also have a Chaos Dreadnought, and a model that I could use as a Lord in Power Armour. I am able to buy a little, but no more than about 40 bucks worth of models.

Stick your Lord on a Juggernaut and get the new WHFB Chaos Lord on Juggernaut. It looks just as awesome as it fares in CC. 10+ S5 Power Weapon attacks

Holy crap that thing is beautiful. I think he would be too slow, though, and he can't join squads.

Yeah he can, he just can't be carried in transports.

The book says he can't be carried in transports AS IF he were Cavalry, therefore implying that he remains as Infantry. Go ahead and stick him with some Berzerkers

DAaddict wrote:
Lord: MoK, Daemon Blade 140

Elite: 5 Chosen- 3 Meltaguns, 2 Flamers 130 + Rhino w Combi-melta 45 (175)
Elite: AS ABOVE


Troop: 7 Berzerkers + Scull Champion with PF + Rhino w HML 50 258
Troop: AS ABOVE
Troop: AS ABOVE
Troop: 6 Berzerkers + Scull Champion w PF + Rhino w Combi-Melta 45 232

Heavy: Defiler w 4 CCW 150
Heavy: AS ABOVE
Heavy: AS ABOVE

1846

Your math is off. I get 1946 not 1846.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Yeah he can, he just can't be carried in transports.

The book says he can't be carried in transports AS IF he were Cavalry, therefore implying that he remains as Infantry. Go ahead and stick him with some Berzerkers

That's true. If I dropped a rhino, I could afford the steed....

His giant base really helps in CC too, make sure he gets in base-to-base, then all of a sudden a whole handful of Berzerkers are able to attack where in other cases they couldn't (since you measure 2" from the models in base contact, and his base is really big).

Indie characters count as seperate units in HTH so it actually hinders your squad because he's a giant model blocking the zerkers.

Should put zerkers in LRs because they are footsloggers w/o fleet.

Your list is good, Defilers are not really needed, should get LRs instead if playing Khorne.

Yeah, no bikers.

Khorne = Lord/Kharne with Zerkers in LRs. You point up your HQ with two troops, then give those troops LRs before you get anymore. Can CSM LR spam? if they can, LR spam with zerkers lolololololol

As I've already said, I can't do Land Raiders right now, and when I do, probably not more than one.

I don't think the Jugger Lord will make it into this list, but I will eventually get the model just because it looks so amazing, whether I use it or not.


That said, thanks for all your tips, everyone. I think the army is alot better now than it was, and though it's not perfect, it will be a fun, exciting army to play. Besides, if I really wanted a sure win army, I'd just copy and paste some pathetic, stupid dual lash list with 9 oblits and some plague marines.

I'm going to start a WIP thread for the army sometime this week, as most of the old models I have are not yet painted, and I still have lots of building, converting, and painting to do, and I'd love to get tips on those aspects of it as well.