What should I do with my SM assault squad?

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**CENArtDamage**

Alright, so I modeled up a pretty nice assault squad, 10 strong. The vet serg. with power fist is actually my favorite model I've made thus far, and that makes me really resent the fact that a lot of people say assault squads in the vanilla SM codex just aren't very good. I've had good experiences with them, at the very least doing a tremendous job holding big units up. So I'm wondering what I should do with them, Dakka. Are they viable in a competitive list? Should I play them in a Blood Angels army? Are blood angels even a very competitive list? I know their HQs are quite good, but I'm not sure how well I'd be able to play against my roommate (8 bloodcrushers, lots and lots of melee pain...) and it would be pretty bad to just make a list that he'll just bend over every game.

So what do you suggest guys?

**0ldsk00l**

8 bloodcrushers?

Does he also kick puppies?

The biggest thing vanilla assault marines have going for them is their new reduced cost. They aren't amazing, but they are a decent way of getting some bodies into combat, and do much better if you back them up with a JP chaplain.

As for Blood angel marines, you pay a LOT more for these squads, making them horrendously overpriced for what you are getting. However, making them scoring, and the ability to load up on them without taking away from other FA slots makes them see a bit more attactive.

Blood angels are a hard list to do well with, but I have seen some do pretty well with them, mainly by playing very tight games. There isnt much room for mistakes there, and if you do go for an assault heavy list, you are going to lack some firepower.

**Centurian99**

Now what exactly is wrong with 8 bloodcrushers? Shouldn't we be applauding people for taking max-sized units, and using Khorne's sacred number to boot!

**Old Man Ultramarine**

Centurian99 wrote:Now what exactly is wrong with 8 bloodcrushers? Shouldn't we be applauding people for taking max-sized units, and using Khorne's sacred number to boot!

QFT

**MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy**

He'd be a cheesy git for using any squad size but 8. God bless fluffy players!

I think Dreadnoughts are the only things you'll want to throw at Bloodcrushers.

**CENArtDamage**

He doesn't play the 8 bloodcrushers for fluff. He plays them because he wants to win, and because he can't afford to play more right now.

**AdeptSister**

Like people have mentioned, Dreads are your best bet against bloodcrushers.

Assault marines are very decent for the price. Unfortunately, nothing short of TH/SS Assault Terminators can reliably beat most Daemons in HtH.

You need to focus on shooting as much as you can when playing marines versus Daemons. Sternguard are pretty good at that.

**Casper**

Well in a vanilla list you could use them as a counter charge force however against deamons in CC i'm not sure they would be that effective.

0ldsk00l wrote:
As for Blood angel marines, you pay a LOT more for these squads, making them horrendously overpriced for what you are getting. However, making them scoring, and the ability to load up on them without taking away from other FA slots makes them see a bit more attactive.

Even though you pay more for them you are paying for a "free" squad of Death Company - give them jump packs and a chaplain and watch them go to work. The rending and FNP are wonders (do bloodcrushers have power wep?) in CC.

However once again bloodcrushers are a tough cookie so I agree shooting lots of rapid fire bolter rounds are probably the best against deamons...

**Lordhat**

Give them x2 flamers and have them harass slower units for a turn or two before charging. I don't know if you're playing Ultras, but this tactic works good without Vulkan, and wonderously with.

Usually when your opponent sees one unit of Assault Marines, they'll assume the norm: counter assault; Using them as harriers is unexpected and can throw off your opponent's game plan just enough to make them worth more than their post cost alone would indicate.

**StormHalo**

I'm struggling with the same question.

One of my regular opponents plays daemons and though I am not super worried about losing my assault squad, it does annoy me when he deepstrikes 3 flamers right by them (or anything) and kills 7-8 before they ever touch anything (flamers are the a-bomb of 40K).

I PLANNED on using them as a counter assault squad to support my troop choices (tactical marines) or to use their melta bomb to take down a Soul Grinder here and there.

Daemons are a space marine players worse nightmare though. If you're not running termis with storm shields, you have to hide and shoot (again, the fricking flamers don't even let you get a cover save)!

**Caffran9**

If he played the Crushers to REALLY win he'd likely run them in 2 units of 4 each with different wargear to make it a complex unit for wound allocation abuse (one with rending, one with icon, one with instrument, one normal... 4 different models). A large unit of 8 is definitely a frightening thin, but it coul be far worse.

Blood Angels can field a rather strong list or two, and there should be 1 full sized Assault squad in the competetive lists (based on what I've seen on here and other sites as well as my evaluation of the codex).

Assault Squads won't do much against Demons though, they're too mediocre in CC to really make an impact against things like Bloodcrushers, PBs, Thirsters, etc.

**Martel732**

Assault squads can beat up on daemonettes, flamers, and pink horrors though. If any show up.

Even better than assault marines for the vanilla dex are vanguards. Vanguards with a drop pod are stupid good for taking out squads that are "in the rear with the gear"

Chaos demons are tough for any marine hand to hander in general, though. It's best to shoot them and bring your spiffy vanilla librarian to nerf their invulnerable saves.

**whitedragon**

If you are playing blood angels, they really should be led by Dante and Corbulo, and have one dread to tie up the blood crushers forever.

**StormHalo**

Martel732 wrote:Assault squads can beat up on daemonettes, flamers, and pink horrors though. If any show up.

By then it's usually too late, at least in my experience.

Can you tell I struggle against the Daemons with my space marines?

**der Wiskinator**

Why don't you just use those assault marines as those new crazy marines with the 3+ inv saves?

Or for that matter as vanguard veterans. They get to assault the turn they deep strike, so that would be the perfect counter to both the flamers or the bloodcrushers.

**tzeentchling**

Very little in the way of Troops models will stand up to Bloodcrushers, particularly on the charge. TH/SS terminators are your best bet, and still I suspect the Crushers will come out on top.

However, that's not the role of an Assault Squad. The problem with the Assault Squad is that compared to the serious assault units out there (Ork Nobz, Khorne Daemons, Berserkers, genestealers, etc.) they simply don't match up. Having said that, they're great at assaulting (most of) the basic Troop units of an opponent's army and their support units. They're also good at counter-assault - once the opponent has committed himself, they jump in and turn the tide. Shoot the assaulters and assault the shooters, as they say.

**wuestenfux**

Well, they are good for implementing the modified Rhino rush tactics.
Take two Rhinos with Tacticals or Sternguard and deploy one Assault squad behind each Rhino.
The Rhinos move at full speed, the passengers disembark and rapid fire the opponent, while the Assault Marines stay behind the Rhinos.
Next turn, the Assault Marine sweep across the board while the Rhino passengers save the area where they were deployed.

**StormHalo**

wuestenfux wrote:Well, they are good for implementing the modified Rhino rush tactics.
Take two Rhinos with Tacticals or Sternguard and deploy one Assault squad behind each Rhino.
The Rhinos move at full speed, the passengers disembark and rapid fire the opponent, while the Assault Marines stay behind the Rhinos.
Next turn, the Assault Marine sweep across the board while the Rhino passengers save the area where they were deployed.

I'm using that!

God, sometimes I feel so stupid for not having thought of this stuff before!

**Steelmage99**

The fun thing is that most people will say;

Vanguard
Don't take Vanguard as they are too expensive and an equal points-worth of Assault Marines can accomplish the same things.

AND

Assault Marines
Don't take Assault Marines as they aren't good enough.

I just find that funny.