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This is the list I took to Summer Legends Tournament here in Brisbane a couple of weekends ago.

I'll list the army list, then will later (when I get time) add more posts describing why I made the selections, how the units went, and what I need to change.

A NOTE:
I'm an aggressive player, I hate camping so I need the flexibility to push forward, and pressure my oppopnent, but also need to be able to pull back if the situation requires it, and take a charge (especially vs all cav armies)

I managed to scrape:
Vs new lizardmen with 2 EOG - draw
Vs daemons- draw
Vs Dwarves- minor loss (an 800 point turnaround on the last break test of the game)
Vs Dark Elves (with 40 shades!!! ) - minor loss
Vs All cav Empire with Karl Franz an STAN - massacre win. KF, 1 knight and a 3 wound stank were all that was left.

CHARACTERS:
Skarsnik
= 205

Goblin Big Boss BSB, Raggedy Red Banner, light armour
= 112

Goblin shaman, level 2, x2 dispel scrolls
=140

Goblin Shaman, level 2, Staff sneaky stealin
= 140

54 Night Goblin Mob, full command, nets, HW & shield.
3 fanatics
= 292

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

5 spider riders, short bow, spear, shield, musician
= 76

SPECIAL
8 Squig Hoppers
= 120

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

1 Spear chukka with orc bully
= 40

Giant
= 205

Giant
= 205

= 2243 (yes I know I could fit in 2 more NGs but I ran out of models)

Skarsnik.
= 205.

Lets see.

For 50 points more than a goblin warboss with magic items I get:

Ld 8 (the most important consideration in a NG army)

Skarsnik's Prodder: Bound 5!!!! St 6 hit for him, then another st 6 hit for each unit of goblins (or NG) over 20 or orc units over 10 within 12 inches.
Now you see why I had 4 units of 25 along with the main unit, so I could take a few wounds on each unit and still pump out the shots.
First 2-3 turns it was almost invariably 6 shots at st6... could blow away flanking or light units and get through heavy armour.
BUT if you want to use it it binds you to a central position (where he needs to be anyway)
Throw this spell out first, then follow up with 3 dice per spell from each shaman, BIG help to the magic phase and invariably soaks up 2 dispel dice if the enemy wants to be sure to stop it.

Gobbla- I don't think he managed to killing blow the entire game BUT he gives Skarsnik US 3 so no killing blow, 6 wounds (noone killed him in any game) and a bucket load of high strength attacks, something sorely missing from other goblinoid warlords.

Sneaky Schemes: 4 games managed to remove 1 unit per army (KF in the Empire list ) then went bananas in the DE game removing 2 shades, a unit of dark riders and a mage LOL.
I never relied on it to do anything but rolling for EACH, character, unit, warmachine and independent monster the looks on my opponents' faces as I rolled was priceless.
Sooner or later a trebuchet or Anvil will roll a 6 and much rejoicing will be held by me.

Tricksy Traps: So if a fleeing NG unit rallies it can reform, take a free move, and shoot.
Worked a treat for my archer units who would stand and shoot, release fanatics, shoot, break, rally and then reform in 1 rank and blast the unit with innaccurate bow fire. Or just to move to reposition a unit to redirect a follow up charge. Grew to use, and like this rule more and more.

Rating: For a NG army 9/10- I cannot think of a better general if you want all goblins and a infantry general.

Very interesting - I've got the contents of two copies of Skull Pass, along with the Orks from one of the last few versions of the Warhammer boxed set (boyz, arrer boyz, and a boar chariot). I've been wanting to make a greenie force, but wasn't quite sure where to start...

Your list certainly gives me food for thought! For instance, I notice you've taken bolt throwers, and not Doom Divers. I was underwhelmed by the description of the Doom Diver effect - is it truly as sucky as it appears to be in the rules?

Also, I notice you haven't taken the maximum number of Night Goblin fanatics - is there a reason why, other than simply saving on points?

WOW! Thats a butt load of minis and 40 shades against the DE!! Holy crape is all ive got to say about the shades were they 4 units of 10 or two of 20. I just run ten id like to hear how he ran 40 of those bad boys!! I just hope i dont run into a night goblin list like the one uve just run in my turnie this saterday other wise its gonna be a very loonnngg day.

nieto666 wrote:WOW! Thats a butt load of minis and 40 shades against the DE!! Holy crape is all ive got to say about the shades were they 4 units of 10 or two of 20. I just run ten id like to hear how he ran 40 of those bad boys!! I just hope i dont run into a night goblin list like the one uve just run in my turnie this saterday other wise its gonna be a very loonnngg day.

His list was (from memory)
Hero on manticore (hero had regeneration)
2 level 2 scorceresses
18 or so corsairs with banner of frenzy
Small unit harpies
2 units of 5 lt armour, shield dark riders
4 units of 10 shades, 2 units had great weapons
2 assassins, one ine each of the GW shade units

No core to the army, one standard to catch, highly maneuverable and if I advanced I would be cut to ribbons. It was a moot point anyway as for the first 3 turns skarsnik and the large unit, and 2 of my smaller units rolled 1 on animosity. :(

Commissar Molotov wrote:Very interesting - I've got the contents of two copies of Skull Pass, along with the Orks from one of the last few versions of the Warhammer boxed set (boyz, arrer boyz, and a boar chariot). I've been wanting to make a greenie force, but wasn't quite sure where to start...

Your list certainly gives me food for thought! For instance, I notice you've taken bolt throwers, and not Doom Divers. I was underwhelmed by the description of the Doom Diver effect - is it truly as sucky as it appears to be in the rules?

Also, I notice you haven't taken the maximum number of Night Goblin fanatics - is there a reason why, other than simply saving on points?

Spear Chukkas are pure gold. I'll talk about them later.

I'm acctually looking to drop a spear chukka and a giant and replace it with a doom diver.
Doom divers are great, d6 st5 AP hits and you can alter where you hit... the only 'stone thrower' that can do it in the game.

Fanatics: Combination of ran out of points and to leave my opponent guessing, and a comp score I'm trying to bleed points out of. I look at fanatics as cav/monster killers to allow my main units to withstand a charge.

At this point, unless you had to, would you ever go without Skarsnik? I have zero experience with him but as I look at the list I'm putting together, he seems to be an auto-choice.

The Crippler wrote:At this point, unless you had to, would you ever go without Skarsnik? I have zero experience with him but as I look at the list I'm putting together, he seems to be an auto-choice.

Several factors:

Are special characters allowed (I'm primarily a tournament player)? If yes I'll take him.
Do I want an infantry based general (other option really is to stick him on a chariot)? On a wolf or giant spider I'd still keep a general central and use him the same way as an infantry general.
Am I going goblin theme or will a BO on wyvern with shaggas sword be a better choice?
I NEED Ld 8, only a goblin warboss has that, so a NG warboss is removed from the equation immediately.

Skarsnik has so many good points and special rules its very, very hard to pass him by.
Also he doesn't need to be the general to use Sneaky Schemes.... so in 3000+ point games take him as a second lord choice and let the hillarity ensue as you roll for the 20+ 'units' in the enemy army.

Goblin Big Boss BSB, Raggedy Red Banner, light armour
= 112

"A goblin?" I hear you say.
"Ld 7" I return.

Why pay 5 points less for Ld 6 and hatred for dwarfs and +1 I?
ALWAYS take goblin characters in NG/goblin army (Bigboss on giant squig as an exception)
The +1 Ld for his unit if he is out of the generals Ld bubble is just too important.

Raggedy Red Banner.
THE BEST STANDARD FOR GOBBOS. Should be in every goblin based army list. Reroll panic in 12 inches, coupled with the Ld8 from skarsnik it makes it that bit harder to fail.

Psychology is the weak point in the army.
Ld 8 and rerolling panic are essential.

Lt armour.
Just because.

Changes... I'd probably look at moving him to a wolf to allow him to move greater distance when 'unit hopping' A gian spider may also work and has the advantages of moving easily through forests but I don't want my BSB i a forest, I need him in my battle line.

I have a sneaking suspicion that he wouldn't be seen as a 'tough' character either by most players. Giant squigs are funny and fluffy, so he probably helps save your comp scores as well. That may be true of Goblins in general, but I'm talking specifically about taking the sting out of taking a special character, because I know that even in tournaments where they're allowed, a lot of players still look down on them as choices.

The great thing about skarsnik is that as good as he is, he is still a NG warlord and they suck. It is like taking an empire battle priest, on foot as your general.
Anyone playing goblins or NGs cannot concievably take a comp hit (barring 20 fanatics) as they suck royally.

My aim in every game is to get a draw. If I win it is a bonus. I had more fun in these 5 games (the DE game was a washout due to animosity) than I have in a long time because there is no pressure on my part to win, it is my opponents game to lose. AND I played out of my skin to get them there, rather than alot of the 'point and click' armies out there.
I just felt it was time to really push myself with an army noone expects to do well.

Goblin shaman, level 2, x2 dispel scrolls
=140

Goblin Shaman, level 2, Staff sneaky stealin
= 140

First off the decision to go with Little Waaagh vs Big Waaagh. Initially I was troubled by the high casting cost of almost all the spells. Then I realised that with 2 level 2's I'd be generating 2 power dice each, and 2 pool dice.
So I'd be able to throw 3 dice at each spell, and more often than not I'd get the spell off.
This forces my opponent to throw 3 dice minimum, or a scroll to stop it. So I burn up the dispeling dice with skarsnik's prodder first up and then the first spell, leaving me to easily get off the second spell.
There are no lame spells in the Little Waaagh, I was always able to use the spells I'd rolled up.

Secondly magic defence.
In a tournament situation swamped with VC (there was only one at the tournament LOL ) and TK and alot of magic heavy armies the Staffof Sneaky Stealin is essential. Allows me 5 dispel dice and with the 2 dispel scrolls the only time my opponent got a spell throug was on poor rolling on my part or they rolled up an irrisistable force.

Truely a swarm if Ive ever seen one lol. i just picked up the orc book not too long ango and have been at well a loss because I like seeing orcs and not goblins but fanatics make it all worth while.

54 Night Goblin Mob, full command, nets, HW & shield.
3 fanatics
= 292

The usual comment by passers by was 'That is a big ass unit', my opponents remained silent on the issue.

I deployed it 10 wide and 5+ deep.
This is the unit where Skarsnik was deployed and (usually) the BSB as well.

This was a great psychological tool in the army.
My opponent knew there would be fanatics (and why dissapoint) and 3 spewing out would usually cripple a charge.
then they hit and get netted (which rolled a 1 both times in my practice game, and then was successful, every time in tournament battle), then guarenteed to get outnumber and +5 combat res.

The huge number was to also absorb magic and shooting deaths so to reduce panic.

In the 5 tourny games they broke once (vs the dwarves with Skarsnik and BSB and unit failing break test Ld of 7, with reroll on the last combat of the game. :( allowing an 800 point turnaround with banners)

The nets would turn St 5 cav charges into st4 (and st2 mounts) meaning I'd be getting at least a 6+ save (better than no save) and I made quite a few.

Coming into writing this I was going to say that 3 fanatics was too much... but on further reflection as the unit was a bugger to kill I only gave up the points for them once.

People freak out when you slap a huge unit down on the table, and supported on each side by the spears for 2 more fanatics to be released, enemies would suddenly be confronted by 5!!! fanatics.

It was a bugger to maneuver and it is annoying when it animosities due to the characters in there as well.

In future I'd likely drop the nets (if I was to drop a giant and bolt thrwoer as well) and reduce the numbers down to 40, 8 wiade and 5 deep.

In Waaagh Bishnak (do a google search) he used to use 100 model units (but when HW & Sh NGs were 2 points) as fanatic screens.

Nice to see your list, and props again on running all gobs (also: giants, also: orc bullies). Pity about the non-night gob heroes, but I can't fault you on the logic, any kind of Ld is a must. There are maybe 3 things I'm not a huge fan of:

1) Special character. Your reasoning is right on about his usefulness, and you really seem to know how to make the most of him. Also, I love the model and it's rare enough you get to see it on the table!

2) 9 Fanatics. Get my panties in a bind every time I play against them, and only my skaven have enough random small arm fire to handle that many. That said, fanatics have won me a couple games so far, spinning into flanking charge paths and killing / panicing the orcy chargers

3) 5 Bolters. I used to complain about 3 bolters, then I keep running into 4 of them, but 5 ... All the same I have been convinced by apologetic O&G players that they miss most the time anyway, so that's why you need the whole battery. Though there was one horrific game where my ogres went up agains 4 of them that didn't miss 2 turns in a row. 8 S6 D3 wound bolts were gut-wrenchingly painful, but the fatties survived and 1 unit of yhets scared the entire artillery hill away. Note: that was in a 1000 point battle.

Of course after listing these, the shear fact that it's a gobbo army makes them all moot points The special character one is on principle, but overall, meh. I think the doom diver will be good for diversity's sake, but what you got planned for the extra points after dropping giant + bolter?

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:Nice to see your list, and props again on running all gobs (also: giants, also: orc bullies). Pity about the non-night gob heroes, but I can't fault you on the logic, any kind of Ld is a must. There are maybe 3 things I'm not a huge fan of:

1) Special character. Your reasoning is right on about his usefulness, and you really seem to know how to make the most of him. Also, I love the model and it's rare enough you get to see it on the table!

2) 9 Fanatics. Get my panties in a bind every time I play against them, and only my skaven have enough random small arm fire to handle that many. That said, fanatics have won me a couple games so far, spinning into flanking charge paths and killing / panicing the orcy chargers

3) 5 Bolters. I used to complain about 3 bolters, then I keep running into 4 of them, but 5 ... All the same I have been convinced by apologetic O&G players that they miss most the time anyway, so that's why you need the whole battery. Though there was one horrific game where my ogres went up agains 4 of them that didn't miss 2 turns in a row. 8 S6 D3 wound bolts were gut-wrenchingly painful, but the fatties survived and 1 unit of yhets scared the entire artillery hill away. Note: that was in a 1000 point battle.

Of course after listing these, the shear fact that it's a gobbo army makes them all moot points The special character one is on principle, but overall, meh. I think the doom diver will be good for diversity's sake, but what you got planned for the extra points after dropping giant + bolter?

- Salvage

Special characters are normally not allowed in Australian tournaments so when one comes along where they are its hard to pass up the chance. In this tournament you were allowed 1 SC in your army. There were 5 Empire armies, and every one had Karl Franz, 4 on horse and one on dragon!
In a normal tournament without SC I'd be force to take a goblin warlord.

9 fanatics is at the good end of the spectrum (considering I have 5 units that can hide them). They are released very easily and against horde armies (like skaven are useless. they are there to kill the high cost combat armies, like chaos, brets, ogres, which would otherwise smash me.... and they also hammer dwarfs .

5 bolters was too many... and I was going to take 6 but ran out of points.... I'll talk more about them later but IMHO they are the ONLY must have units in an O&G army at a tournament, they are just too good to pass up...

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

These were the support units for the HW/Shield super unit, one on each flank.

They performed suprisingly well, managing to kill enemies in every combat they were in, and acctually getting to attack thanks to the second rank (hooray spears)

They were cheap enoug to use as bait and flee but sturdy enought for +5 combat res and to hold people up in combat.

Looking back the only thing I'd change is to move 2 fanatics from the main unit and drop one each into each of the spears unit, to up their points and drop the points on the 'super unit'.

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

Welcome to the most suckful 'line' unit in the list short of a snotling swarm...

Deliberately left without standards so as to both save points and to not give 100VP to my opponent when they are beaten in combat.

These units were on the flanks of the main line, and performed admirably, diverting, baiting and fleeing, and killing thanks to their fanatis.

The 2 fanatics each was a nasty suprise for my opponents and with a unit on each flank, ensured encircling would be very difficult.

After taking out wounds done by the fanatics, these units would have killed less than any other selection in the list. HOWEVER theability to reform and splash out bow shots was gold, as was having throwaway line units that could speedbump an enemy charge away from my line, ready to be flank charged in my turn.

For sheer usefulness and flexibility, and not to mention the lower points cost I'd be hard pressed to leave these guys at home, and would include them before I'd put in spears, I just had that man uses for them....

5 spider riders, short bow, spear, shield, musician
= 76

The best unit in the army, narrowly beating out the squig hoppers (I don't include Skarsnik in that because the army is built around him)

Being ably to ignore forests for movement... gold.
Having bows and spears and shields for a point less than a wolf rider..... gold.
Higher leadership than NGs..... gold.
Throwaway quadrant catcher... gold

Another unit that had too many uses.
I originally bought them for warmachine hunting and they ended up killing:
3 terradons (+1 wound) in 1 devestating charge
2 flamers
5 dark riders (and broke another 5)
8 slayers (out of a unit of 10)
2 pistoliers (and managed to outmaneuver them so the pistoliers presented their flanks to 3!!! bolt throwers.

Seems a pretty poor bunch of kills, but it was the shooting, the appearance out of a forest to threatne the enemy , the redirecting, the march blocking, the LOS blocking, the quadrant capturing that made them so versatile)

What I found most hard was planning to be far away enough so that if I waaaghed I would not end up charging the enemy, but stay within half shortbow range and be in a position that if I animositied I wouldn't be charged. THAT teaches an experienced WHFB general really how to think about their moves before they make them.

On the experience with them so far, another unit for the army is essential, and I'd take them over wolves in almost any given game... they are just that good.

Onto the SPECIAL selections.

8 Squig Hoppers
= 120

Cheap enough to use as a flanking unit, large enough to take a few wounds from shooting but still pack a punch, (usually) fast enough to suprise the enemy and with their bounce special rule, great at hiding behind/in a forest, then leapin out to do a 'blind' charge on the enemy.

These were my main warmachine killers, rather than the spider riders.
They also excelled at smashing light infantry.

The St 5 helps get through armour and at 2 attacks each they really pack a punch.

Also 3d6 mvt is infinitely better than the 2d6 mvt of snotling pump wagons as you can leap huge distances over the course of a game.
Very importantly march blockers don't slow them down either, which is great.

These guys were always on a flank and always performed well, I believe they made their points back in every game except vs the daemons and they still held the flamers up for 3 turns of combat and therefore 1 less turn they would be shooting at me.

And when you lose combat effectiveness (Vs dwarves I was eventually shot down to 1 model afetr wiping out some warmachines) you just leap off into the distance or terrain to save half points.

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

1 Spear chukka with orc bully
= 40


Although they are very hit and miss (LOL) these are the only must have in an O&G army, and if you take 1, you may as well take 4.

An orc bully upgrade is essential and the number of times the Ld of 7 saved me was amazing. This is a no brainer upgrade. Also he isn't a champion for challenges etc, he is a unit upgrade.

These guys really threatened stegadons, chariots, almost decimated a stank (and barring a brain fart in the last turn when I charged skarsnik against it I would have finished it off with the spear chukkas), heavy cav, large daemons, monsters etc... essentially everything the rest of my army was not suited to take on.

I'd drop one and just go with 4 in future lists at 2250, unless I wanted to really annoy my opponents/ faced stegadon spam or brets, where I would take 8.

RARE
Giant
= 205

Giant
= 205

I love giants.
I love the kit.
I love their randomness.
I love that an otherwise lame army can pack these stubborn Ld 10 brutes.
The old chaos giants were the bees knees, but regular giants are still pretty good.

I took 2 because I know that 1 is alright, but 2 is a bugger to deal with. I once took 2 in a 3000 point beastmen army and my opponents really struggled as I'd always tag team them.

So I did the same here and they would march off down a flank by themselves to smash the enemy line.

Strangely one would do brilliantly and one would suck majorly. Ususally the one hitting the enemy first would be wounded and struggle through a couple of turns, then the second, full wound giant would stride in and doo havoc.

These guys were my (only) hammer units. And as hammer units they suck due to their randomness, but man are they great fun.

Looking back 2 is OTT. I'd probably be better off with 1 giant and then another unit of squig hoppers and 2 snotling pump wagons running down the flank.

Soon:
Changes for next tournament...

Things to change...

So if special characters are allowed in the next tourney / I'm playing friendly games I'd change the following.

Characters stay the same. I may try a wolf or a spider for the BSB, and the mages in the future.
Split the HW/Shield unit into 2, one 30 models, one 25-30 (depending on points I have left), drop the nets and put x1 extra fanatic in so 2 fanatics for each unit.
This should give +1 more 'hit' from skarsnik's prodder and the addition of another unit should be yet another distraction for my opponent.

Drop a spear chukka and a giant.

Replace with:
8 squig hoppers- 2 units are better than one
2 snotling pump wagons- I'm not completely sold on this unit yet, however again 2 are better than one and the players who do use them, love them.

I'd also dig through the list and find the 30 points needed to take another spider rider unit. Even if it means 1 less fanatic it is worth it.

Despite the extra cost I'll persevere with the spears, for a few more games at least.

Questions?
Queries?

In your experience, are the hw & shield gobbos strictly better then the spears? Is part of your reluctance to switch them out the need to drop all those Battle for Skull Pass models? That's mine. I don't want to buy and make all those much more fiddly regiment box goblins. It's worth it for me for now to pay the extra point.

i have no problems with skar or unit sizes, both seem great, as do the chukkas.

dont you find that fanatics tend to cause more damage to you though against smaller armies?
surely if you cover half the table then theres a much higher chance of a fanatic killing gobbo's?

The Crippler wrote:In your experience, are the hw & shield gobbos strictly better then the spears? Is part of your reluctance to switch them out the need to drop all those Battle for Skull Pass models? That's mine. I don't want to buy and make all those much more fiddly regiment box goblins. It's worth it for me for now to pay the extra point.

I think the spears have their uses.

If I was going the mass horde of 250-400 NGs (yes people do that) then I'd not take spears at all, just HW/S.

Remember that the spears can still fight with HW/Shield if needed.

ATM I want to keep them to add some flexibility.

The models aren't too much of a problem, just 3 more boxes to get 60 HW/shields. I hadn't touched the BFSFP models since I got the box 1st week it was released so they were essentially 'free' minis.

How did you make the hw night gobbos Gonads?

im curiouse because i dont think i'll ever spend
extra points on spears.

JD21290 wrote:i have no problems with skar or unit sizes, both seem great, as do the chukkas.

dont you find that fanatics tend to cause more damage to you though against smaller armies?
surely if you cover half the table then theres a much higher chance of a fanatic killing gobbo's?

You'll note I have a heap of NGs. That was another reason I took the huge main unit, the spear units would invariably throw their fanatics at units charging my massive unit. 54 models -2d6 (say 2 run back through me) = who cares.

People are taking hard hitting units in tourney armies, VCs and the odd skaven player are the only ones who take hordes (and the VCs only turn into a horde in the later stages of the game.

The fanatics are to weaken the enemy's hammer units.

If you play O&G you have to have a different attitude, and expect badness at the worst possible moment. As I said in a round about way earlier if I draw I'm a winner as far as I'm concerned, and fanatics are fun.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:CHARACTERS:
Skarsnik
= 205

Goblin Big Boss BSB, Raggedy Red Banner, light armour
= 112

Goblin shaman, level 2, x2 dispel scrolls
=140

Goblin Shaman, level 2, Staff sneaky stealin
= 140

54 Night Goblin Mob, full command, nets, HW & shield.
3 fanatics
= 292

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

25 NG mob with spears and shield, full command
1 fanatic
= 145

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

25 NG mob with short bows, musician
2 fanatics
= 129

5 spider riders, short bow, spear, shield, musician
= 76

SPECIAL
8 Squig Hoppers
= 120

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

2 Spear chukkas with 2 orc bullies
= 80

1 Spear chukka with orc bully
= 40

Giant
= 205

Giant
= 205

= 2243 (yes I know I could fit in 2 more NGs but I ran out of models)

really nice list and i wish i had 154 NG to run a list like it. Im also sort 3 spear chukkas and a giant. Never the less I bet you beat the break shoes off people.