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Ok, explain to me why anyone would play this at anything other than ard boys. Lists such as the 6 montorous creatures nids, eldrath with wraith spam, etc...

First off you are going to get hit so hard on comp/sportsmanship that it is almost impossible for you to place with these armies, you may win best painted (although if its voted on by players theres no way) The only reason to bring these armies is to be a douche. The game isnt fun for your opponent (especially if they cant deal with the army and even if they can its very hard) So please explain it to me...If theres no chance of the person placing (even if they table every opponent they get digned big time on comp/sportsmanship) so the only reason to run these armies is to show 1: what little actual playing ability you have and 2: that you dont care about playing fun games you just want to piss people off.

1.) lots of tournaments don't have comp, and most players nowadays do not chipmunk your sportsmanship score for bringing a hard list.

2.) the game IS fun so long as both players bring competitive lists. There are few lists that are so over the top as to make the game unfun, unless you're playing a battleforce army against it.

3.) it's a TOURNAMENT. To like, you know...compete, and try to win.

4.) If you have a hard list, and I have a hard list, then the person who has better playing ability will win (with luck factored in of course, and the mission). If I bring a hard list, and you don't, and the tournament doesn't have very specific comp rules that screw me...this seems like it's your fault not mine. Also, it is possible to game comp - so you bring the hardest army possible that passes comp, and I bring something weaker that also passes comp. Now you're that guy, instead of me...who cares if you passed comp, you're still a jerk for bringing a stronger list by your rules.

People win tournaments with hard lists all the time even if they get crappy comp scores. Now if people chipmunk their sportsmanship as well, yes they're screwed, but the hallmark of a bad sport is complaining about someone's army when there is already a section on composition that is separate from sportsmanship!

da gob smaka wrote:Ok, explain to me why anyone would play this at anything other than ard boys. Lists such as the 6 montorous creatures nids, eldrath with wraith spam, etc...

First off you are going to get hit so hard on comp/sportsmanship that it is almost impossible for you to place with these armies, you may win best painted (although if its voted on by players theres no way) The only reason to bring these armies is to be a douche. The game isnt fun for your opponent (especially if they cant deal with the army and even if they can its very hard) So please explain it to me...If theres no chance of the person placing (even if they table every opponent they get digned big time on comp/sportsmanship) so the only reason to run these armies is to show 1: what little actual playing ability you have and 2: that you dont care about playing fun games you just want to piss people off.

Sour Grapes?

Hmm,
Dont know what to say really...

Well, it is a tournament and last I checked the goal is to win. Complaining about it is like complaining that the other Basketball team you faced used players that were too tall. Zapping someones score because they used a better list than you is just being a poor sport if you ask me. If you don't like competitive lists don't play in tourneys, play with friends and leave it at that.

That was my first thought too. I tend not to bring the hardest lists cause it's not my style but I don't get butt-hurt when I lose vs. one either.

6 Big bugs isn't a hard list, it's actually pretty nice since it's their only Anti-tank.

But i'm banking on this being a troll bait since there is a thread up about comp and now i'm in before the lock

Unless the tournament has some kind of comp restriction, what exactly is the problem??
This is my list for a 1750pt tourny last weekend:
DP w/wings & lash X2
10 plague marines in rhino X3
2 Oblits
vinny w/ pocession X2

would ya whine it is "too hard"???? The purpose is to win not play a fluffy army with a little of everything in it. Especially when first place gets $125 store credit.
Now all I have to do is decide what to spend it on!

No sour grapes. And I understand hard lists thats ok and challenging I have no problem with hard lists or even losing to them. I just dont understand lists that go beyond "hard" Some lists are just ridiculous (Loota Spam, 6 Mostorous creatures, 24 blood crushers, etc...) These lists cease to be fun for any of your opponents and after all isnt that the main factor. I understand some people just want to see how bad they can crush opponents, but if theres any sort of comp score you wont be winning anything, youll make alot of people mad and youll have a hard time getting anyone to play with you. I know guys who play these lists and they cant get a game unless its a tourney and even then at times the players refuse to play them so the shops wont let them play. I really am curious as to what the motivation is behind these lists.

I think the motivation is obvious - to win games.

I think the choice is to either pack up your bags and go home or figure out how to build a better mousetrap.

da gob smaka wrote:Ok, explain to me why anyone would play this at anything other than ard boys. Lists such as the 6 montorous creatures nids, eldrath with wraith spam, etc...

First off you are going to get hit so hard on comp/sportsmanship that it is almost impossible for you to place with these armies, you may win best painted (although if its voted on by players theres no way) The only reason to bring these armies is to be a douche. The game isnt fun for your opponent (especially if they cant deal with the army and even if they can its very hard) So please explain it to me...If theres no chance of the person placing (even if they table every opponent they get digned big time on comp/sportsmanship) so the only reason to run these armies is to show 1: what little actual playing ability you have and 2: that you dont care about playing fun games you just want to piss people off.

Um, you realize tournaments, especially big official ones like the GT or RTT are MEANT to be competitve. If you want a friendly game, play a friendly game with your friendly friends, but if you're the type of person who would ding people for comp just because they brought a competitive list to a competition (and you didn't) makes you a douche, not the other way around.

Tournaments that even have a secondary scoring secion usually only have one part that incorporates the actual army composition, the rest of it would be sportsmanship and in way should be affected by the composition. Even then, is a competitive list automatically cheesy? If the list seems feasible within fluff confines, and the army had some effort in the modeling/painting, the other player is a good sport, there is no reason you should give him a bad score.


"...1: what little actual playing ability you have and 2: that you dont care about playing fun games you just want to piss people off."...
1) So by bringing a solid, competitive list, that means you are lacking in skill? Good players bring sh*tty grandma lists while bad ones bring effective ones? Your arguments' got heart, timmy, but it has no reasoning.
2) If everyone brings competitive lists, like they should in a COMPETITION, then it will be fun. The point in which is ceases to become fun, is when whiners like you bring sub-par lists and then bitch about getting your ass handed to you, and then rob a good, even friendly player of finishing where they deserve because you bitterly subtract from their score because you don't like their list.

You say it's okay to bring "hard" lists, but it's not okay to go "too far above hard". Where is that line? Is it possible that would be an opinion and not something measureable? Should we incorporate a "Gob Smaka's list of whats dick to play, and what's okay" to GTs and RTT? I think that's what we should do. I'm calling up GW right now and giving you my reference.

Your argument is so nonsensical is tickles my sac. You are either a troll just trying to anger people, or you are a fool.

GOODBYE

da gob smaka wrote:Some lists are just ridiculous (Loota Spam, 6 Mostorous creatures, 24 blood crushers, etc...) These lists cease to be fun for any of your opponents

You listed three lists you think are too hard (one of which isn't really that hard in 5e anymore but I digress). The problem is that comp rules don't always eliminate hard lists, and subjective comp is, well, subjective. My friends tend to play the hardest lists they can with the models they own or are willing to buy (the only reason I don't see 18 Bloodcrushers, of course). Sometimes lists are less or more optimized but playing hard lists against each other IS fun.

If you want to eliminate lists that are 'too good' either make a tournament where the missions give these lists a disadvantage (or other lists an advantage) and make sure those rules are publicized. Or just flat out ban lists/powers you don't like, I'd rather see that than some random comp rules just begging to be abused just as badly.

Anyway, you don't really make any sense. Your whole argument seems to be based on the fact that you personally find these armies to be too strong. What if the tournament was nothing but people playing these armies against each other, except for you and your less hard army? And they all accepted the comp hit or didn't get much of one because the players there enjoy playing against hard lists? Why do you get to decide what is too hard?

Well as for those "beyond hard" lists I was at a tourney on sunday and w/GK's beat one 6 MC's 'Nid Army, almost beat another 8 MC's 'Nid Army (he had one big bug left), and a space marine player w/2 thunderfire cannons beat a 24 bloodcrusher army.

So how are these armies beyond hard? They are tough but it sounds like the people you play with, if they are getting **tchy about it, need to really take a second and, i know it sounds bad, learn to play.

I beat down a Godzilla army with Deathwing with a bunch of storm shields.

I guess I must be an donkey-cave because my opponent didn't have fun!!!

You can get away with a "semi-hard" lists (lol) and still win tournaments. Trying to perfect strategies and tactics seems to take a major back-seat role to army-list making in 40k, they actually do work you know.

Isn't it part of the strategy of the game that I thought it had, to figure out the best combinations for a list, even if it means spamming, I mean look at something Like guard. You HAVE to spam to have even a boot licker's chance in the warp at winning against.. well damn near anything else besides guard... or in the case of an army I played once, guardian heavy Eldar.

da gob smaka wrote:Ok, explain to me why anyone would play this at anything other than ard boys. Lists such as the 6 montorous creatures nids, eldrath with wraith spam, etc...

First off you are going to get hit so hard on comp/sportsmanship that it is almost impossible for you to place with these armies, you may win best painted (although if its voted on by players theres no way) The only reason to bring these armies is to be a douche. The game isnt fun for your opponent (especially if they cant deal with the army and even if they can its very hard) So please explain it to me...If theres no chance of the person placing (even if they table every opponent they get digned big time on comp/sportsmanship) so the only reason to run these armies is to show 1: what little actual playing ability you have and 2: that you dont care about playing fun games you just want to piss people off.

I'd bring a hard list to a tournament not only to have a chance to beat all my opponents but to also hear all the whiners whine about how dare anyone show up to a tournament with a competitive army.

If you want to play your "fun" or theme army play it in a friendly non-competitive environment. I would never show up to a tourney with my Berzerker themed army because it gets smoked by anything with mobility. I often play it with people in my game group though because I love the look of the models and the thrill of sometimes pulling out a long shot victory. Same with my Deathwing army. It won't ever win in a competitive environment, but I love the fluff and look of fielding a bunch of termies and LRs. If I decide to enter a tournament and want to be competitive I'll bring out the dual lash and have fun trying to match up with other top lists.

da gob smaka wrote:No sour grapes. And I understand hard lists thats ok and challenging I have no problem with hard lists or even losing to them. I just dont understand lists that go beyond "hard" Some lists are just ridiculous (Loota Spam, 6 Mostorous creatures, 24 blood crushers, etc...) These lists cease to be fun for any of your opponents and after all isnt that the main factor. I understand some people just want to see how bad they can crush opponents, but if theres any sort of comp score you wont be winning anything, youll make alot of people mad and youll have a hard time getting anyone to play with you. I know guys who play these lists and they cant get a game unless its a tourney and even then at times the players refuse to play them so the shops wont let them play. I really am curious as to what the motivation is behind these lists.

It's sounds like your curious about the individual motivations for these types of armies. Many people enjoy the feeling of winning. Some may not know why they feel good, but they do. It could be that they like the feeling of being on top of the heap. It could be the material gain offered. Though rare, there are also those that enjoy the misfortune of others. It's not the list. It's the person.

You're asking a question where the answer is as myriad has "why do people hate?" or "why do people love?".

Because the game rules allow you to do so. That's pretty simple.

I hear this so much on these forums....
if you want games that are just for fun with fluffy armies play at your game store or at casual events (games day).....
but just because a portion of the people that play 40k enjoy thinking up there best list and the strategy to go with it doesnt mean you have to say how "cheezy" there list is when they could have spent hours working on and knock them down score wise because of this. i know there are cookie cutter armies but since they are played a lot, stratagys to beat them are found fairly quickly and then countered with new armies.i personally think this is FUN thats right i said it and just because some people dont find this fun doesnt give them a reason to post forums about how dumb it is.
if you like just casual games then thats cool i have no plroblem with people playing for that reason.i would never tell them how dumb that is just because i have a different view than them.if they are having fun more power to them.so if people want to bash on the part of the hobby that a lot of people find enjoyable thats your problem.

definition of tournament: a competition in which contestants play a series of games to decide the winner.

This thread has been found guilty of trolling and hereby sentenced to termination.