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So - here is the plan for a Crimson Fists army I want to build and paint this year in preparation for next years' tournaments. I plan to spend quite a bit of time converting and painting but I want to make sure the finished product kicks the proverbial .

How could this be made better at 2000 and what would you advise I drop to make it 1500 (which will be the optimal tournament loadout)?

Start your flamethrowers
Cheers in advance.


Pedro Kantor - 175 (rides with the first sternguard squad)

7x Sternguard, Powerfist, 3x combi-flamers, 3x combi-meltas - 230
Rhino - 35

8x Sternguard, Powerfist, 3x combi-flamers, 3xcombi-meltas, Multi-melta - 260
Rhino - 35

10x Tac Squad, Powerfist, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon - 210
Rhino - 35

10x Tac Squad, Powerfist, Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon - 210
Rhino - 35

2x Landspeeder Typhoons - 180

2x Landspeeder Typhoons - 180

2x Multimelta Attack Bikes - 100

Vindicator, Siege Shield - 125

Predator, Autocannon, Hvy Bolters, Pintle Storm Bolter - 95

Predator, Autocannon, Hvy Bolters, Pintle Storm Bolter - 95

You need better anti tank at 2000pts, especially plenty melta, cuz you could be looking a 2x(LR+Termies) or LR spam:

Librarian @ 100 Pts
Null Zone; Gate of Infinity

9 Sternguard Squad @ 290 Pts
Combi-Melta (x6); Rhino

10 Sternguard Squad @ 320 Pts
Combi-Melta (x7); Rhino

10 Tactical Squad @ 205 Pts
Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino

10 Tactical Squad @ 205 Pts
Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino

10 Tactical Squad @ 205 Pts
Flamer; Multi-Melta; Rhino

2 Land Speeder @ 140 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Bolter (or Heavy Flamer)

2 Land Speeder @ 140 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Bolter (or Heavy Flamer)

2 Land Speeder @ 140 Pts
Multi-Melta; Heavy Bolter (or Heavy Flamer)

Predator @ 85 Pts
Autocannon; HB Side Sponsons

Predator @ 85 Pts
Autocannon; HB Side Sponsons

Predator @ 85 Pts
Autocannon; HB Side Sponsons


Going so heavy on the plasma is not a good idea anyway, because yes, you wound on 2+ but smart people get cover saves. Pedro is not needed, you can have 3 tacs for scoring purposes, you don't want to CC with your Sternguard, and losing Combat Tactics is detrimental.

I appreciate what you're saying Prophet (I need more anti-tank) - but could I get some feedback on my list, rather than just using your list.

I assume you think I should be putting melta on the tac squads instead of plasma?
Also, given the increasing prevalence of horde armies (Orks and soon IG) do I have enough anti-horde in my current list? I don't want to build a list purely to counter LR spam and then loose to some noob who got a couple hundred orks for Christmas...

Well, if you'd take the Heavy Flamers you'd be better if there's too much horde orks in the meta. That's what I'd use anyway. You wouldn't be any better with your original list tho, because the Lootas can wreck your Typhoon Speeders worse than you can kill them with blasts (they're almost always deployed in cover) and the Vindicator can't reach before being wasted. Plasma Cannons can only do so much when he spreads and has cover saves.

If I were really afraid of the horde, I'd take Whirlwinds instead of Preds. Same cost, goes thru invulnerables with pie plates and counters Lootas. You lose versatility tho.

At any rate mech armies are more dangerous and you aren't packing near enough anti tank in your list. But if you insist, I'd drop the Vindicator for another Pred, Switch the Typhoons for multi melta/heavy flamer and trade the plasma guns for flamers. Also, all combi melta on the Sterns.

7x Sternguard, Powerfist, 3x combi-flamers, 3x combi-meltas - 230
Rhino - 35

8x Sternguard, Powerfist, 3x combi-flamers, 3xcombi-meltas, Multi-melta - 260
Rhino - 35

Don't mix combi-weapons in a single squad.
Better take combi-meltas for anti-tank goodness; see Prophet's list.

2x Landspeeder Typhoons - 180

2x Landspeeder Typhoons - 180

Typhoons are not bad, but don't rely too much on them.
The army needs more anti-tank, say by adding some more Attack Bikes with multimeltas.