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Meh. I decided I'd try to run a Star Dragon list for a bit - considering I'm looking to be fighting a (non-Thorek) Anvil list, a heavy magic + monsters DE list, and Casket TK list, I thought I'd try to bring in my own dealer of death list to the fray. It's based off of this list, and in a way is just an evolution from the non-dragon list:

LORDS
Prince - 632
Armor of Caledor, Vambraces of Defense, Great Weapon, Star Dragon *GENERAL*

HEROES
Mage - 175
lvl2, 2x Dispel Scroll

CORE
21x Spearelves - 214
full command

10x Archers - 110

SPECIAL
6x Dragon Princes - 180
6x Dragon Princes - 180

15x Phoenix Guard - 255
full command

RARE
2x RBT - 200
1x Great Eagle - 50

TOTAL - 1996


LOTS of points being devoted to Characters here, obviously. I opted for the super-defensive, choppy lord so that he'll hopefully survive. I'm concerned a bit by the efficacy of the Scroll Caddy, but I suppose he'll be safe with the PG. Few banners, if only to minimize loss of points.

How do you think it would fair? I haven't played with dragons much, so I've yet to get a good gauge on how well they function.

Do not use a great weapon on the Lord. it only gives you a +1 str when on the mount. Use a halberd. same bonus but cheaper.

Personal choice here, but I would cut the spear elves to 10 and use the points some place else.

don´t you need 3 core in a 2000pt army?

Normally yes.

High Elves get different Core req's and Special allotments.

Generally speaking, they get -1 Required Core, +2 Core and 2x Rare, I believe per points bracket.

Arion wrote:Do not use a great weapon on the Lord. it only gives you a +1 str when on the mount. Use a halberd. same bonus but cheaper.

Personal choice here, but I would cut the spear elves to 10 and use the points some place else.

Good point on the GW. I had put that in with the thought that in case he lost his dragon, he'd have the +2. How often have you seen a Star Dragon killed off leaving the Prince?

Any other thoughts on the list (minus the spears suggestion)?

ah ok. i don´t have HE. i knew bretonians played with the hero allotments.

not sure how the dragon princes will go without any static combat resolution. i suppose you just need to make sure they are double teaming in the flank but with the low unit count i´m not sure you will be able to do that consistantly

leighr3029 wrote:ah ok. i don´t have HE. i knew bretonians played with the hero allotments.

not sure how the dragon princes will go without any static combat resolution. i suppose you just need to make sure they are double teaming in the flank but with the low unit count i´m not sure you will be able to do that consistantly

DP's are nasty on the charge. Namely because they have 2 attacks each, giving (assuming no losses until combat) 12 S5 attacks on the charge. They certainly can't take out large tarpit units by themselves, but even against an average sized infantry block (12-18 guys), they can usually cause enough damage without worrying about too much retaliation and can usually win by kills alone. With Ld9, they're also pretty stable. They just really can't live prolonged fights. Also, at 30pts a pop, can't really afford to get too many more

Hmmm,

I don't play as high elves, but I do play against them.

If you really wanna take the Star Dragon, go for it. I war you though, a DE opponent with Caledor's bane will make your decision to field one quite regretable. I would take the moon dragon, or whatever you silly high elves call the middle dragon.

DP's are nasty on the charge, but only if you get all 6 to their targets. I could see a Dwarf Player with 2 Organ Guns possibly wrecking those units to pieces. Also, even if you do get all 6 in, poor rolls and no static resolution might kill them off. make sure they get support

Those Pheonix guard look like they're gonna have no support. Those spearelves will get shot to bits and archers can only reliably kill so many core troops. OnG players will swamp those pheonix guard with ease. Your Bolt Throwers also only do so much damage. Watch out for miners.

Overall, I think you spend too many points on your character. I'd see if I could fit swordmasters in that list, those would be nasty.

Personal choice here but I would probably drop the Mage and some other stuff possibly the Phoenix Guard and have a Dragon Mage that way you can have 2 dragons working in concert and even when charging in the front they should be able to break what ever looks at them funny.

Also the General needs a Star Lance as your on a dragon so should always be charging and Str 7 on the charge is very very nice.

@Cryonicleech - As I mentioned before, my opponents (my only opponents as my friends and I don't play at any FLGSs or tournaments) play non-Thorek Anvil stunties, Casket TKs, and Magic-heavy DE.

Yes Star Dragon's are still quite vulnerable to Caledor's Bane (yet another tool in the DE arsenal that's so readily available to counter HE's - gripe), but I already mentioned my key opponents and what kind of forces they tend to play - Caledor's Bane isn't a concern. In any event, I generally tend to avoid going head-on to opponent's Fighty Heroes, since they're almost invariably deadlier than mine.

I'm quite familiar with the vulnerabilities of the DPs - you never send them in against a unit that overwhelms them with SCR. Like more or less every other unit in the HE list, of course the DPs need support. In this particular list, the 2 units of DPs would work together (ideally) to set up combined charges. Like I mentioned in my response to leighr, yes they lack SCR, but most cavalry units (not all) tend to suffer in this aspect as well, and the high cost (though worthwhile, IMO) of the DPs really prohibit you from taking an extra rank of them simply for SCR. They are NOT a steam-roller unit, despite their stats. 2 Organ Guns + bad rolling wreck any unit.

Yes there's a crap-ton of points spent on the character - that tends to be the case when it comes to the Star Dragon. Barring not taking the dragon, you're looking at 520 points base for the character - not to mention getting at least some protection for the Prince (Armor of Caledor is almost a must). With regards to the Moon Dragon, just comparing the stats of the Moon Dragon and Star Dragons, the 70pts extra you have to pay just comes off as worthwhile to get you +1 WS, S, W, A, Ld, Scaley save, and S4 Breath Attack. By the time you've settled on investing so many points on a dragon-mount, the 70 points for all those bonuses (at the loss of I, but you're usually getting the charge anyways) makes the Moon Dragon seem very unappealing relative to the Star Dragon.

Sorry if this bit comes off snide, I apologize if it does: You warn that spearelves and DPs will get shot up and then you suggest Swordmasters? Yes the Swordmasters are quite nasty, but without Shield of Saphery to help them weather through some shooting, you're looking at a bunch of dead Swordmasters to even mild shooting.


@99MDeery - Yeah, the Double Dragon list is also tempting, though I'm trying to avoid that. If I did go that route, I'd most likely save myself 140 points by just having two Sun Dragons, since it'd be a bit unnecessary to have the Star Dragon at that point. I find the Double Dragon list a bit on the cheesy side of things though, so I'd like to avoid it (also, don't have a second dragon model at the moment! )

You know, I'm still not terribly sold on the Star Lance. I see the appeal of it, but somehow, I always find myself in prolonged fights where the benefits of having charged are lost. As such, I tend to prefer investing more in defensive trinkets and mundane weapons.

Eh, it's your list. At least try to cast Shield of Saphery on those Spearelves./ Dragon Princes.

p.s. there's nothing stopping your opponent from taking Caldor's bane. Just watch out for it.

true, but this is why the dragon must always get flank charges or charge in with a unit of DP to make sure what it hits it breaks as dragon mounted characters cannot fight protracted battles.

You might try to bump the mage down to a level 1. A lv 2 by him self isn't going to get much off, and you won't lose the dd, you save points. between that and cutting down the spear elf size you could get another Eagle. I find that these help alot in star dragon lists to set up a charge for either the dragon or the Dragon Princes, plus they help hunt down the war machines that are going to be shooting you dragon to death.

I usually run a Star Dragon list at 2250. if yiou ever go up to that, bet a noble with the battle banner running with one of the Dragon Prince units. That will eat through anything on the charge.

If you happen to up the list size to 2250ish at some point, adding a second lvl2 mage and banner of sorcery to the 'guard would give you a decent offensive magic phase. You could try this even at 2k but I dunno what to cut from the list.

Arion wrote:You might try to bump the mage down to a level 1. A lv 2 by him self isn't going to get much off, and you won't lose the dd, you save points. between that and cutting down the spear elf size you could get another Eagle. I find that these help alot in star dragon lists to set up a charge for either the dragon or the Dragon Princes, plus they help hunt down the war machines that are going to be shooting you dragon to death.

Good point on the Mage. I'd probably be just tossing out Shield of Saphery around where possible anyways.

Between that and cutting 15 points off somewhere else, I can get that second Eagle.

Yes there is no reason to upgrade a scroll caddie to second level. If he take HE lore he will always get the shield which is the default spell and drain magic. Your star dragon is outfitted pretty good. Consider taking a regular sword for a weapon or the amulet of light. That makes all attacks by him and his unit, ie the dragon, magical.
Please keep us updated about how this list works out for you.

Huh....for some reason I miscalculated the points for the Prince. He should be 606 with the halberd. So that's ~20 points that I save. Well, guess that's where the eagle will come in.

JIn I was going to ask you about your points on the dragon. My daughter runs one with AofC, VoD and sword of might. Hey she wanted a lord with a sword on a dragon. She also wants to run a dragon mage with this but so far I have talked her out of it. After playing a magic heavy defensive army I want to get her more into the moving and facing phase.
It really seems that you have a real plan on how to use your army and what each unit is to do. That is the key with the HE apparently.