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Does Farsight's "Ork Fighter" special rule extend to Drones? It says "any Tau model in an army lead by O'Shovah counts as having...." So, do Battlesuit Drones and Drone Teams get this ability as well? What does or doesn't qualify something as a Tau model?

Tau Model: Anything thats a Tau

If it applied to drones the wording would be "All models in the Army" Rather than "any Tau Model".

So no, it doesn't Apply to Drones.

Were in the codex does it say that Drones aren't Tau?

Where does it say they ARE tau models?

What Enmitee said

Where does it say that Crisis Suits, Fire Warriors, or even Farsight are Tau models?

where did you find that sweet pic of Anderson?

Their stat/profile isnt listed as a wargear. I dont think wargear (the drones) is considered as tau models.

Corey85 wrote:where did you find that sweet pic of Anderson?

I don't remember, but I think I found them on Deviantart. You can PM me if you want them.

On topic though, despite them being wargear, the drones are still models in the Tau army. Thus they are Tau models as the Codex does not state otherwise.

Since the Tau Codex doesn't list any Models as Tau, and the rules does not say "Models in the Tau Army" but rather "Any Tau Model", by Strict TFG-ism no models benefit from Ork Hunters.

If we decide to use normal people logic, its safe to assume that "Any Tau Model" means Models that are of the Tau Race, not Auxiliaries like Kroot (which I don't think Farsight can even take iirc I don't have the codex to hand atm) and Drones which are just Machines.

I DOnt think that they get the benefit for the simple reason that the ork hunters rule doesnt apply to drones is that they are machines that cant gain experience from the compaigns and are simply turn on/off units that follow programming and cant learn from experience.

I can understand from a background point of view, but I am looking for a rule.

Edit: On page 38 of the Tau Codex under Pathfinders it shows their Marker Beacon special rule which allows Tau units that deep strike to re-roll the scatter. This would Include Battlesuit and Drone units.

arinnoor wrote:I can understand from a background point of view, but I am looking for a rule.

Edit: On page 38 of the Tau Codex under Pathfinders it shows their Marker Beacon special rule which allows Tau units that deep strike to re-roll the scatter. This would Include Battlesuit and Drone units.

What's the exact wording of it though? the devil is in the detail.

"Tau units deploying by means of deepstrike to a point visible by the Devilfish may re-roll the scatter dice." The only catch is that the Devil fish has to start the turn on the table for this to work.

Ah, theres the devil!

"Tau Units" is not the same as "Tau Model".

it's a Petty difference yes but an important one. A Tau Unit is a unit that is drawn from the Tau Codex. A Tau model is a Model that is a Tau

To be Totally Honest, the RaW are muddy due to it being a 4th Edition Codex, and cannot be cleared up without an Errata (since ofc GW decided to Make FAQ's utterly useless)

Edit: I cant fething spell

Whoa whoa whoa folks. I believe ruling for Farsight's 'Ork Fighter' is worded that way because he is not allowed to take Kroot and Vespids (they may be inducted races, but not inherently Tau). So when talking about "Tau Models," I would see it as who he is allowed take in his army, which is not "all models in the army," but non-inducted units (original Tau). Drones are not inducted nor invited to join the Tau, but constructed by the Tau themselves. To say Drones do not "count" as a "Tau Model" is ridiculous, and wargear is not the only way to take Drones anyway.

Under Fast Attack, p38 of the TE Codex, right next to the name "Gun Drone Squadron" in parenthesis, is this line:

(Tau: Kor'vesa)

This is important because under troops and then Kroot, it does not say "Kroot Carnivore Squad (Tau: Kroot)." It just says "Kroot Carnivore Squad." Whoever says Drones do not "count" as "Tau models" does not know their "fluff."

Um the Line about Tau: Kor'vesa is just the Fluff about what the units name is in T'au. It has less than Zero Rules impact.

Don't accuse us of not knowing our fluff and then sputing off rubbish about fluff counting as rules please.

Again I just wanna point out, I am of the Personal opinion that it needs to be Errata'd because its an old codex, but I do feel that ork fighter doesnt apply to drones also.

if I remember correctly, the only real rulebook mention of whether drones are tau units comes in the rules for Aun'va and the rules for Ethereals.

The "price of failure" rule specifies it only affects "Tau units" and then says that excludes "kroot, vespid and drones"

Gwar! wrote:Don't accuse us of not knowing our fluff and then sputing off rubbish about fluff counting as rules please.

Chill. Where exactly in the RAW does it say that drones do not "count" Tau models? They are a fieldable unit with stats, count towards the 25%/50% unit number, and have a point cost. Just because they are available as wargear and a fast attack choice has no "impact" at all on their ability to be considered Tau.

lambadomy wrote:The "price of failure" rule specifies it only affects "Tau units" and then says that excludes "kroot, vespid and drones"

Good find. However, I would say the two special rules of different special characters do not affect each other. If they had wanted to specify, they would have done so with the "Ork Fighter" ruling just as they did with "Price of Failure."

Also, under Shadowsun's "Command-link Drone" rules (p47), it quotes:

TE Codex, p47 wrote:Any Tau units (including Vespid units with a Strain Leader, but not Kroot units) within 18" may use her Leadership for any Morale, Pinning, or Target Priority tests."

This ruling includes Drones to benefit from her command-link, thus rendering them "any Tau unit".

synchronicity wrote:
Also, under Shadowsun's "Command-link Drone" rules (p47), it quotes:

TE Codex, p47 wrote:Any Tau units (including Vespid units with a Strain Leader, but not Kroot units) within 18" may use her Leadership for any Morale, Pinning, or Target Priority tests."

This ruling includes Drones to benefit from her command-link, thus rendering them "any Tau unit".

And I can just as Easily counter-Quote:

If a friendly Ethereal is killed then every unit of Tau on the Battlefield (not Kroot, Vespids or Drones) must take a Morale check...

This ruling indicates Drones do not need to take the test when (and I do mean when) an Ethereal being slain, thus rendering them not included in the definition of "every unit of Tau" which I am sure we can agree is synonymous to "any Tau unit".

See, being a is easy on the interwebs

Just more proof that it cant actually be figured out without Errata!

Edit: Spelling

Gwar! wrote:Just more proof that it cant actually be figured out without Errata!

It will be a sad day indeed when GW needs to include in their Errata that a Tau Gun Drone is a Tau model. In all your posts, you have posted no RAW to back your claim (except someone elses). The fact that the codex specifies Drones in Price of Failure and not the Command-link Drone or Ork Fighter special rules is evidence enough to defeat your claim. That's why they say tie goes to the defender.

Gwar! wrote:See, being a is easy on the interwebs

Yes, you are indeed TFG.

You want RaW?

Ok. RaW a "Tau Model" is never defined. There are certainly "Models in the Tau Army" but that's not the same as a Tau Model. One then, falls back onto basic English and Deduction.
A Fire Warrior: is it a Tau? Yes, because it is an actual Tau (The same way a Guardsman is a Human)
A Crisis suit: Is it a Tau? Yes, because it is being piloted by one (Same way as a Sentinel is being Piloted by a Human)
A Drone: Is it a Tau? No its a Drone.
A Kroot: is it a Tau? No its a Kroot

Its just another Example of GW being utterly Unable to write.

If you had actually read my posts, you would realise I am just playing Devils Advocate and being Snarky in a Sarcastic way. I certainly don't need GW to Tell us "This is what a Tau Model is" but I feel that both from a Rule standpoint and a Logic Standpoint (they are freaking drones, they don't practice Hand to Hand any more than your PC practices baking bloody muffins) they shouldn't get the Preffered Enemy Rule.

synchronicity wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Just more proof that it cant actually be figured out without Errata!

It will be a sad day indeed when GW needs to include in their Errata that a Tau Gun Drone is a Tau model. In all your posts, you have posted no RAW to back your claim (except someone elses). The fact that the codex specifies Drones in Price of Failure and not the Command-link Drone or Ork Fighter special rules is evidence enough to defeat your claim. That's why they say tie goes to the defender.

Gwar! wrote:See, being a is easy on the interwebs

Yes, you are indeed TFG.

Where's your RAW? Thats what I thought...

Lets read some of the rules here, shall we?

Ork Fighter: Fire Caste Warriors train heavily in HtH combat, and any Tau Model in an army led by O'Shovah counts as having Preferred Enemy: Orks.

This is interesting. Are Drones Fire Caste Warriors? No. Can they train in HtH? No. Are they Tau Models? Maybe, because they can be fielded by O'Shovah, but they are not of the Tau Race.

Now lets read on.

Preferred Enemy: Some warriors can predict the moves of the enemy they're fighting.

Are Drones warriors? No. Can they predict movement? No.

The only wording in contention is 'are they Tau models?' Everything else would point to them NOT getting Preferred Enemy. One could create fluff to represent them getting the Special Rule, such as they can be programmed by veteran fighters of Orks to give them an edge in battle against Orks. But until the time comes when GW decides to clarify this, I would have to say no, they do not get the Special Rule, per RAW. As usual, talk to your opponent about it, blah blah, if you REALLY want to give Drones Preferred Enemy.

Now you see I was gonna bring up the Fire Caste thing, but it slipped my mind as I was typing out the other arguments. Yeah, one could argue that only "Fire Caste" models get it, which is eveything except Ethereals, Drones (Air Caste) and Auxiliaries (No Caste).

One could also argue that the Spotter for the Sniper Drone team wouldnt get it either as he is Classed as Air Caste (Or'Mon'Kor) which I would actually kind of agree with (he is specialised in sitting on his arse pewpewing from over 9000 miles away, yeah he's gonna be so epic in HtH.)

I think drones count as Tau models... (Tau: Kor'vesa)

Kor'vesa might be the tau name for drones, but do you really think that kroot carnivore squad is the name the Tau use for Kroot? So with that backwards useless logic, Tau:Kor'vesa is indicatin a tau unit, made up of tau models. So lets have those gun drones get some anti-orc hating going on.

Not like any orc player should care if tau can hit in combat anyhow.

As I said before, the bit saying Tau: Blah Blah is just a translation into the Tau Language.

The reason it isn't added for Kroot is because "Mindless Savages who eat those who they kill" would take up too much space (Plus notice how they add translations only for those who are attached to some sort of caste). Plus you didn't address the fact Farsight mentions That only the Fire Caste train to fight orks. The Drones are part of the Air Caste.

[/Roundabout Logic]

I am sorry, but the caste that they belong to has no direct coralation with them being tau models, or with the "Ork Fighter" RULE at all. That sentence is part of the background for the rule. It has nothing to do with the rule itself.

I beleive that you are mistaken when you say that the translations in each entry are only for the background. I beleive, the fact that they use the word tau in the entry makes them a tau model. There is no other background information in these entries. What makes you think that these would be the only one? I beleive that they are there for this reason exactly.

As you have stated this issue will not be solved until an errata comes out. As I see no compelling evidence that they do not benefit from the rule, I will play as if they do.

i do believe, the drones are Tau models. they have been created by the Tau and not inducted like the Vespid and the Kroot.
also, imo a drone is capable of learning. it depends if they received artificial intelligence or not. it's perfectle believable that they start with standard programming wich allows them to learn new things.
conclusion: i consider drones to be Tau models.
it's the same in our time, the Russian army has Russian tanks (= created by them). it is classified as being Russian eventhough it is not alive, it belongs to their country, society, culture, ... Same with the drones of the Tau, hence a Tau model.

sorry for the rambling.

I would say that only Tau (as in the actualy alien) get the special rule because it says, "Fire Caste warriors of the Farsight Enclave train heavily in hand to hand combat...."

This would imply that only the Tau get the special rule, not drones.

Krilau wrote:
it's the same in our time, the Russian army has Russian tanks (= created by them). it is classified as being Russian eventhough it is not alive, it belongs to their country, society, culture, ... Same with the drones of the Tau, hence a Tau model.

By that Logic, a Drone is a "Drone Made by a Tau". Its still not a tau, no more than a "Tank Made by Humans" is a Human.