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Soo, I think I'm going to get into space marines, but the problem is I dont know what to choose, BA or BT? any suggestions?

If you're looking for versatility, BT. If you're looking for competitiveness, I'd still say BT. If you're looking for fast jump troops, then go with BA.

what makes BT better?

Here is a quick run down on both armies:

BT still benefit from the old SM codex rules such as smoke launchers and six man tactical las/plas squads. Of course six man tactical las/plas squads are not that great anymore since the game has become much more mobile. You can have entire army that hits on 3+ in close combat plus they run towards the enemy when a squad passes a morale check from shooting. The army is also fearless in close combat. Templars are basically an assault Marine army pure and simple. Their HQ choices are also solid and you can still take all the wargear.

Blood Angels are also an assault Marine army and have access to a lot of solid jump infantry choices. You can design your army to have rites of battle, lower the enemy WS by -1, benefit from preferred enemy and also have furious charge. Blood Angels also have the Death Company which is still a nasty unit in close combat.

If I had to pick one or the other it would definitely be ablood Angels, of course I am an avid Blood Angels player. In my honest opinion Blood Angels played right are better than their Templar counterparts.

G

A few major things make BT good:

1) The Vow that gives EVERY one of your models Preferred Enemy (You get to re-roll all close combat attacks.)

2)Ability to MinMax Tacticals (Can get 5-6 man Las/Plas Squads).

3) You fall forward if you take a loss in shooting and make your leadership check.

4) Marshall (HQ) improves the leadership of all your squads.

5) Terminators and Veterans can get special abilities like Furious Charge or Tank Hunters.

I already pointed all those out except for the veteran skills. The best BT loadout is six assault terminators (furious charge), with a chaplain and/or the Emperor's Champion in a crusader.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I already pointed all those out except for the veteran skills. The best BT loadout is six assault terminators (furious charge), with a chaplain and/or the Emperor's Champion in a crusader.

G

I was typing at the same time and you were faster

Are chaplains really worth it? They allow you to control the fall-forward but don't add much anything since you have the preferred enemy vow.

It all comes down to the preferred enemy vow. You've got an entire army, built for CC, which rerolls misses in CC. Huge.

This, combined with Neophytes, means you can build a horde army, march them across the field into CC, do very little thinking, and still win games.

BAs have fantastic jump troops. That's pretty much it.

They make the squad always fearless... Don't need the rerolls though with preferred enemy via the EC. Grimaldus is worth taking. I would also field a Marshall for rites of battle.

G

hmmm... BTs are more expensive $$$ wise right? you have to buy the upgrade kits i think

BT are easier to paint.

The BT codex is definitely better than the BA codex.
BT is highly competitive while BA needs more skill and very good tactics to play them at the same level.
Therefore, I'd go for BT.

Green Blow Fly wrote:They make the squad always fearless...
G

Which is actually a drawback in CC. Even though the armor saves for termies is 2+, it's still better to not have to take them in the first place.

Lordhat wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:They make the squad always fearless...
G

Which is actually a drawback in CC. Even though the armor saves for termies is 2+, it's still better to not have to take them in the first place.

Well seeing that BTs are fearless in close combat that is definitely a disadvantage for this army from this perspective. Yes it sucks to have to take all those armor saves but how often is the army going to lose a round of close combat? I personally would rather not have to worry about breaking, especially during my own assault phases... if you can keep an enemy unit tied up it really helps during your subsequent round.

You can do a lot of the same things with a BA army that Templars can do. I haven't had any problems yet with my BA. I think BA have a lot more better choices to select from in fifth edition. Our dreadnaughts are better plus I think we also have better HQ, especially if you want to field jump infantry. The Baal is the best tank in the game for the points. VAS are one of the best assault units in the game, definitely much better than Vanguard or the BT equivalent.

If you play either army as an assault force you will find much of the same problems against the armies that are harder to beat. I really don't think that BT are that much easier to win with if you are up against some stiff competition. The biggest advantage that Templars have in my opinion is the ability to field two assault cannons in a five man terminator squad... that's a lot of deadly firepower for a small unit plus they are also quite capable in close combat.

G

what about Ultramarines, are they any good?

blindjoker wrote:what about Ultramarines, are they any good?

Short answer is yes.

Well, the longish answer is still kinda yes, but there's a lot of built in bloat with the current dex so everything is a smidgeon overpriced.

16 pt marines vs. 6 pt orks is not quite fair. Granted, marines are better than average at everything, so they don't have a real weakness if you play to the opponent's own weakness (i.e. shoot CC troops, assault shooty troops)
But therein lies their overpricedness, since they are decent at everything, the points go up, and they don't always have enough bodies.

i go with blood angels. and take assault squads as troops.

I'd go with Blood Angels and use assault squads as troops. Makes around 50 plus jump pack marines.

I agree that BA units are overpriced for what you get. Hopefully this will be addressed when they get a full codex.

G

Hmm. Can't you do upwards of 5-6 LRCs in a BT Army? Seems pretty disgusting, if you ask me.