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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 14:21:43
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gepueqQ9a2V5zxXES7DoGnVhSFHwD96REJ1G0
Officials: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
By PAMELA HESS – 15 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Taliban's new top operations officer in southern Afghanistan had been a prisoner at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, the latest example of a freed detainee who took a militant leadership role and a potential complication for the Obama administration's efforts to close the prison. U.S. authorities handed over the detainee to the Afghan government, which in turn released him, according to Pentagon and CIA officials.
Abdullah Ghulam Rasoul, formerly Guantanamo prisoner No. 008, was among 13 Afghan prisoners released to the Afghan government in December 2007. Rasoul is now known as Mullah Abdullah Zakir, a nom de guerre that Pentagon and intelligence officials say is used by a Taliban leader who is in charge of operations against U.S. and Afghan forces in southern Afghanistan.
The officials, who spoke anonymously because they are not authorized to release the information, said Rasoul has joined a growing faction of former Guantanamo prisoners who have rejoined militant groups and taken action against U.S. interests. Pentagon officials have said that as many as 60 former detainees have resurfaced on foreign battlefields.
Pentagon and intelligence officials said Rasoul has emerged as a key militant figure in southern Afghanistan, where violence has been spiking in the last year. Thousands of U.S. troops are preparing to deploy there to fight resurgent Taliban forces.
One intelligence official told the Associated Press that Rasoul's stated mission is to counter the U.S. troop surge.
Although the militant detainees who have resurfaced were released under the Bush administration, the revelation underscores the Obama administration's dilemma in moving to close the detention camp at Guantanamo and figuring out what to do with the nearly 250 prisoners who remain there.
In one of his first acts in office, President Barack Obama signed an executive order to close the jail next year. The order also convened a task force that will determine how to handle remaining detainees, who could be transferred to other U.S. detention facilities for trial, transferred to foreign nations for legal proceedings or freed.
More than 800 prisoners have been imprisoned at Guantanamo; only a handful have been charged. About 520 Guantanamo detainees have been released from custody or transferred to prisons elsewhere in the world.
A Pentagon tally of the detainees released show that 122 were transferred from Guantanamo in 2007, more than any other year.
The Pentagon's preferred option is to hand them over to their home governments for imprisonment. But the Defense Intelligence Agency's growing list of former prisoners that have rejoined the fight shows that, in some cases, that system does not work.
According to the Pentagon, at least 18 former Guantanamo detainees have "returned to the fight" and 43 others are suspected of resuming terrorist activities. The Pentagon has declined to provide a complete list of the former prisoners they suspect are now on the battlefield.
According to case documents assembled by the U.S. military for a 2005 review of Rasoul's combatant status at Guantanamo, the Afghan was captured in 2001 in Konduz.
Armed with a gun and sitting in the car of an alleged Taliban leader, Rasoul insisted to American authorities he was forced to carry the gun by the Taliban. Rasoul told the tribunal in 2005 that in fact he had surrendered with other Taliban members to the Northern Alliance in Konduz on Dec. 12, 2001.
The Northern Alliance was involved in a protracted civil war with the Taliban, and was allied with U.S. forces in the October 2001 invasion.
Rasoul told the tribunal that he and others were then handed over to the Americans for bounties.
According to the U.S. documents, Rasoul was conscripted into the Taliban in 1995, and was seriously wounded in a bombing in 1997. He returned to the Taliban in Kandahar in southern Afghanistan in 1999.
Rasoul, who hailed from Helmand province in southern Afghanistan_ a Taliban stronghold_ never attended a Taliban or al-Qaida training camp. A key piece of evidence against him was that he was captured with two Casio watches similar to those used in al-Qaida bombings. He said he was holding the watches for a Taliban member who lacked pockets.
He told the tribunal that he intended to return to a peaceful life in Afghanistan.
"I want to go back home and join my family and work in my land and help my family," he said, according to a U.S. military transcript of the hearing.
National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair said Tuesday that at least two Saudi detainees also turned up recently as members of al-Qaida in Yemen after they were released from Guantanamo. The Saudis had been handed over by the U.S. to Saudi Arabia, where they were supposedly rehabilitated as part of a Saudi program to reform extremists.
The Bush administration's decision to transfer militants to Saudi Arabia for rehabilitation "doesn't inspire confidence," Blair said.
But he told the House Intelligence Committee last month that the prison must be closed because of the damage it has done to America's reputation. It is too powerful a negative symbol to remain open, he said.
The jail at the U.S. base in Cuba, created by the Bush administration in 2002, has been criticized worldwide for allegations of abuse of prisoners and their legal status.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 15:20:33
Subject: Re:Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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What an absolute screw up that whole Gitmo thing was.
I'll note the article doesn't say whether this guy was a Taliban leader before his stint in Gitmo, just that he's one now. I'm also not sure how it affects the closure of the base, considering no-one is talking about letting these guys out again, just moving them to other facilities.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 15:30:57
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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The article implies that he and a number of other ex-inmates were guerillas before Gitmo, however if there had been solid evidence they could have been tried rather than just released. So there is no proper conclusion.
It's not an unreasonable assumption that some of the guys who have been released from Gitmo were radicalised by their incarceration.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 15:34:24
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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Fixture of Dakka
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I suppose he has lots of reasons to want to attack the US now thanks to 'Gitmo', previous career not withstanding.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 15:50:04
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Also, having been imprisoned by "The Great Satan" will give him a lot of street cred in the religious fundamentalist guerilla community.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 15:55:06
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote:The article implies that he and a number of other ex-inmates were guerillas before Gitmo, however if there had been solid evidence they could have been tried rather than just released. So there is no proper conclusion.
That's the whole problem. They're capturing people and it may not be clear what their role was before they were captured. I have no doubts that groups were handing personal enemies, someone they had a grudge with, and random people (neither of whom were necessarily Taliban) over to the US and saying they were Taliban. But, I also think they were handing over people who were Taliban and it couldn't be proven 'beyond a resonable doubt'.
Frazzled wrote:He told the tribunal that he intended to return to a peaceful life in Afghanistan. "I want to go back home and join my family and work in my land and help my family," he said, according to a U.S. military transcript of the hearing.
Killkrazy wrote:It's not an unreasonable assumption that some of the guys who have been released from Gitmo were radicalised by their incarceration.
It is an unreasonable assumption. If someone wasn't militaristic before they were captured, they probably won't be afterward. Sure, they may hate the US more, but I don't think that takes them from being a farmer to a gun-wielding soldier. It may take them from being a farmer to a sympathetic farmer who gives some food to the Taliban and helps them stash some guns in his barn. Clearly this guy was lying through his teeth when he said that he wanted to go home and work the family farm.
I'm glad that Gitmo was closed. Mostly because I think Bush did it as an end-run around US laws.
But, this just highlights how there's no 'good' solution. If we capture people, we're also going to end up with some legitimately innocent people. If we don't capture anyone, then we're letting our enemies walk away clean. If we all the Gitmo detainees go, some will rejoin the fight. But, we don't have enough evidence to convict most of them.
I think the basic question still comes down to this - is the US willing to have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan for the next 20 years? Because that may be what it takes to develop a stable government in both nations. If we're not willing to do that (and I don't think the US is), then start withdrawling troops now.
Personally, I think we're at a 'you break it, you buy it' situation. Whether we should have invaded either country doesn't matter. We did. We need to fix them, and that means staying until they are stable. And I also think that means put more boots on the ground, enough to stabilize the sitatuion, and treat this as a war, not a police action.
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In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 16:06:39
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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dietrich wrote:
Personally, I think we're at a 'you break it, you buy it' situation. Whether we should have invaded either country doesn't matter. We did. We need to fix them, and that means staying until they are stable. And I also think that means put more boots on the ground, enough to stabilize the sitatuion, and treat this as a war, not a police action.
Absent nuking it, we generally had no choice with Afghanistan.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/11 16:06:49
Subject: Afghanistan Taliban leader was at Gitmo
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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dietrich wrote:
Frazzled wrote:He told the tribunal that he intended to return to a peaceful life in Afghanistan. "I want to go back home and join my family and work in my land and help my family," he said, according to a U.S. military transcript of the hearing.
So would I say that if I thought it would get me out.
Killkrazy wrote:It's not an unreasonable assumption that some of the guys who have been released from Gitmo were radicalised by their incarceration.
It is an unreasonable assumption. If someone wasn't militaristic before they were captured, they probably won't be afterward. Sure, they may hate the US more, but I don't think that takes them from being a farmer to a gun-wielding soldier. It may take them from being a farmer to a sympathetic farmer who gives some food to the Taliban and helps them stash some guns in his barn. Clearly this guy was lying through his teeth when he said that he wanted to go home and work the family farm.
The male population of Afghanistan isn't split into Taliban and peaceful farmers. It is a tribal society with a high level of militarism and weapon ownership. There are any different power groups such as the Govt forces, the Northern Alliance warlords, the Taliban and others.
All of these groups may be allies of one or another power group and fight, give logistic support, melt into the hills or go back to their farms, depending on timing and circumstances.
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