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Specifically, Raiders for Dark Eldar warriors.

Dark Eldar's greatest asset is their speed, but I really don't have anywhere I want my Dark Eldar warriors to speed towards. In fact, the further they are from the enemy, the better for me.

I've seen the Stelek Raider Squad...

5x Dark Eldar Warrior
- Shredder, Splinter Cannon
Raider
- Dark Lance, Slave Snares

I agree that it works, but I would never be comfortable leaving my troops that exposed in KP or objective missions.

Ravagers, Jetbikes, HQ's on bikes and skyboards - those are the units I want speeding and maneuvering around the board, not my warriors with Dark Lances.


Then again, I'm still fairly inexperienced as a DE player, more paper than games.

Well, the use of Raiders can depend on your forces and what you're trying to do with them.

Speaking as a fairly constant DE player - currently in 5th edition our most tourney capable list (at least IMHO) is a Raider Rush build, and that build does indeed suffer heavily in the KP mission. My usual solution to this is to pray I'm fighting Guard or just focus on tabling my foe so that the KPs won't matter. Sometimes it works pretty well, and sometimes not so much. KPs are a current weakness with most of the effective DE builds in 5th (of course now that I play Orks too I still see little concern with bringing a high number of KPs to a game, I've become used to the thought I suppose).

To just flat out say Raiders are or are not worth it for Warrior squads would be silly. *Sometimes* they are more then worth it, while at other times not. The ability to load onto a Raider and swoop over for objectives in the 2/3 of games that are not KP based is, I feel, a potent reason to pack your Warriors into Raiders. Raiders are also good for extra DLs as well as allowing you to work some excellent tactical shifts on your opponent by tossing the full massed weight of your army at one flank of his. Also note that though you can drop a minimized 5 man squad in a Raider, you can beef it up to 10 for more survivability once your Raider gets shot up (of course you should be using your Wytches and Archon/Drachon to convince your opponent he has something better to shoot then that highly effective, if small, group of troops on a transport).

"the further they are from the enemy, the better for me." I somewhat am intrigued by this thought. Are you actually playing gunline DE? Does that work for you vs. Tau, IG, or Marines? When the DL with 1 die at a 36" range is about as aggressive as our squads can generate I feel like you could be outmaneuvered fairly easily. Then again, for all I know, everyone in your area plays Orks and Tyranids.

Regards,
Thor.

Using my sniper squad and my Ravager, I made a Space Wolves player hunker down in cover for three turns. My only mistake was maneuvering my Ravager too close allowing him to eventually charge it.

I take my Tau philosophy into my Dark Eldar:
- My troops aren't going to win me the game.
- I'd rather deny KP than earn KP with my troops.

I plan to run three squads - four dark lances and two splinter cannons. The only way I could see myself using Raiders is the last turn objective grab that you described.

Raiders can't perform effective fire support from a long distance. The shredder needs to be close, the splinter cannon depends on a volume of fire. The more that can be brought to bear the better.
Worse, a block of 20 warriors is hardly a tarpit anymore, and the high initiative isn't really going to do a lot of damage. Running around on foot is only going to throw away troops getting from place to place since DE can't stand up to fire.

Where jetbikes are strong, they just can't deliver enough damage to be your main punch. A splinter rifle. S3 AP 5 Rapid Fire.... compared to the twin linked shuriken catapult for three points less in the eldar book. the jetbikes also become a delivery system for heavy firepower - blasters and shredders. Meaning you need to be close again.

What the DE do is dictate the range a battle is fought at, and where the DE punch is delivered. To do that the Fast, Open Topped, Skimmer needs to be able to (almost) keep up with the bikes. On a 6x4 table 24" is immense. By dictating this range you get to decide what your warriors are speeding to and combining fire with the rest of your army. You might not want to be towards but you want to be near.

I realize that DE will have to get in close...My HQ are cc monsters (what else would they be), my hypothetical jet bikes will be min-maxed with blastes/shredders.

I just don't see the benefit of my warriors getting close or near to the enemy when they'll crumple if you so much as blow on them.

I've been leaning more and more to putting dark lances with my squads on the raiders. Sure, they can't shoot if they move, but I normally don't need them to move that often. On turn to move behind cover maybe, to dart for an objective or shield my HQs' raiders, but in general they can sit back and concentrate fire on the main enemy threats.

A squad or two of dismounted troops doesn't seem too bad, but they tend to suffer when added to mech list, as all the weapons that don't do well against the raiders (mortars, deep strikers with flamers, etc). I find it's usually best to focus on one extreme or another (horde infantry, all armor) to minimize the enemy's firepower as much as power.

How is 12 vehicles not scary.
6 raiders with dark lances and dark lance squads means you can shoot 12 strenght 8 shots a turn.
3 raiders with dark lances and 5 x wyches means you can move around and assault where ever its needed plus 3 more lance shots.
3 ravagers with 3 disintegrators means 9 plasma cannon shots a turn.
Of course you can keep away with this list and shoot from afar.
and if they come close shoot your shredders at them.
You get all this at around 1850 pts. Raiders are necessary!
If i was playing against this id be very scared.

Julnlecs wrote:How is 12 vehicles not scary.

I will note that 12 vehicles is not scary when you consider that your opponent is fielding 24 KPs before even adding in his HQ. That said, I run a list somewhat similar to that with good effect, it's just in the KP missions you're somewhat obligated to table your opponent to have a chance at victory. I'll also add that with that much mobility and DL/Disintegrator shots you can often manage the tabling fairly effectively.

To the OP I'll also note that if you like a CC monster HQ then by putting him on jetbike you're actually slowing down his initial charge potential as compared to having him on a Raider.

Dark lances are heavy, so the squad on the raider can't fire them if they move. Raiders siting still are dead, and the other weapons you paid for are idle. I prefer night shields to snares just to add that 6" of frustration to my enemies.

As for warriors - I don't like them at all. I field all wyches, deploy them, and send the vehicles out to kill tasty targets.

Ravagers, Jetbikes, HQ's on bikes and skyboards - those are the units I want speeding and maneuvering around the board, not my warriors with Dark Lances.

Jetbikes are mediocre and Hellions are bad.

If you want no Raiders, then take Sniper squads (10 Warriors with 2 dark lances). If so, you need some counter-strike units.

Stelek is right, Raider spam is a viable option.

Raider/Ravager spam is the way to go.

When you face a kill points mission you know you have to table or totally outplay the other person. But why should that limit you? Playing against a 8 raider/3 ravager list is just plain scarry.

13 dark lance shots on turn 1 will make all but the most mech heavy arrmies shaken/stunned. 6 Haemonculi with destructors accompaing 3 wych squads iin raiders kill infintry quick, and 12 Disentegrator shots can really ruin any other unit's day.

I've personally seen an army like this kill three land raiders on the first turn.

And that is just at 1850..........