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Well, just finisked a game with my friend.
I am playing orks, he playes IG.... I get blown away by his templetes... or maybe eaten at 24" range by the lasguns...

This is what I got to choose from:
60 shootas (incl 2 nobs with PK and pole)
30 sluggas (incl 1 nob with PK and pole)
11 Nobs (1 Pk, 2 combi rokkit, 1 combi burna, 3 Big choppa, 2 slugga and 1 pain boy)
12 Lootas
12 Burnas
1 Weirdboy
1 Big Mek KFF
1 Warboss (incl op. squig and TL shoota)
1 Dread
1 BW (any eq. is possible)
3 Koptas with TL rokkit
3 Trakks with TL big shootas
20 Gretchins with Runt herders
3 Zaap Guns

I would like some general suggestions on a 1000p and 1500p setup for actually beating the IG army

He has the following to choose from
1 Russ
1 Basilisk
3 Sentinels
about 60 "normal troops" (dunno the name, the ones that is always 10 in each sqaud) with Lasguns and a few rokkit lauchas.
6 Ogryns

Since he got the templates that deny any saves due to either weapon strength or AP, I get blown away in my general setup of 60 shootas, warphead (hoping for DS), 6 Nobs, 6 Lootas and 3 Koptas.
If I get past the min range of the basilisk I get 60 shots of lasguns....... even worse when I get in 12" range.... 120 shots of lasguns..... (rapid fire sucks...)

I have no problem with either Necrons or SM, but shooty horde seems to be my bane in this game.....

Any ideas?

I do the same thing to my friend.

This is what you do, take your three trukks and load one up with Nobz and your Warboss, MAKE SURE you take the big Choppas and PK and the Painboy. This way, even your WB has FNP. Load the other two up with 12 boyz each. Place them in a trianglular formation with the Nob trukk in back so it ALWAYS gets obscured from the tanks. Tool across the battlefield and unload your nobz next to the tanks and your boyz on the squads and try to initiate multiple combats on YOUR assault. This way the squads will die in HIS assault and you can immediately assault him again in your following turn, unless you get really lucky.

Make sure when you unload the Trukks that you put the trukks between you and his squads for the boyz and the trukk between you and his tanks for the nobz. Then in your next movement phase, you move the trukks out of the way and/or tank shock with them/ block other stuff from shooting/ ram. Charge his tanks and they should die from your str 7 big choppa assault/ the PK and move on from there. Clean up the rest with your Nobz who are uber brutal.

Even is he gets a hit on one of your boy trukks, your nobz and warboss are safe, which is the most important thing. Try to avoid taking the Rokkit kombi as their BS is crap and you dont need a BS with the scorcha, but if you feel you need to shoot, then take them.

BTW, if a Basilisk can see you, it has no minimum range, that is only for indirect fire.

The whole concept of this setup is to get the F*** to the otherside as fast as you can. CC is gaurd's bane, they can't shoot at you, and they sure as hell can't fight.

EDIT: if at all possible, try and avoid telling your friend which vehicle has what guys in them. It'll make it better =D

Also, try to outflank with your koptas.

Special Characters wouldn't hurt either =D

"Since he got the templates that deny any saves due to either weapon strength or AP, I get blown away in my general setup of 60 shootas, warphead (hoping for DS), 6 Nobs, 6 Lootas and 3 Koptas.
If I get past the min range of the basilisk I get 60 shots of lasguns....... even worse when I get in 12" range.... 120 shots of lasguns..... (rapid fire sucks...)"

Question #1; what do you mean, he has no templates which deny cover saves, and as an ork player you ought to stack your units so that the front units have a kffg covering them with a 5+ invuln., and the back units are behind them giving them a 4+ cover save. A 6+ armor save is negated by the AP of almost every weapon in the game, nor will it save many orks when you get it.

Q2; What is this save negated by weapon strength, I am farily sure such a thing does not exist in 5th edition, but I may be wrong.

Q3; with run waaagh and charge movements, you can cover 18+2d6 inches (with a charge) in 2 turns, how does he manage to get you in rapid fire range? How wide of a board do you play on? Even then, if you have the right set up, with cover and invuln saves, 60 lazgun shots only kills, approx. 10 orks.

Also, it seems that you dont have enough orks at the point levels you play. My 1000pt footslogger army has atleast 100 models.

Elnicko5 wrote:"Since he got the templates that deny any saves due to either weapon strength or AP, I get blown away in my general setup of 60 shootas, warphead (hoping for DS), 6 Nobs, 6 Lootas and 3 Koptas.
If I get past the min range of the basilisk I get 60 shots of lasguns....... even worse when I get in 12" range.... 120 shots of lasguns..... (rapid fire sucks...)"

Question #1; what do you mean, he has no templates which deny cover saves, and as an ork player you ought to stack your units so that the front units have a kffg covering them with a 5+ invuln., and the back units are behind them giving them a 4+ cover save. A 6+ armor save is negated by the AP of almost every weapon in the game, nor will it save many orks when you get it.

Q2; What is this save negated by weapon strength, I am farily sure such a thing does not exist in 5th edition, but I may be wrong.

Q3; with run waaagh and charge movements, you can cover 18+2d6 inches (with a charge) in 2 turns, how does he manage to get you in rapid fire range? How wide of a board do you play on? Even then, if you have the right set up, with cover and invuln saves, 60 lazgun shots only kills, approx. 10 orks.

Also, it seems that you dont have enough orks at the point levels you play. My 1000pt footslogger army has atleast 100 models.

I can't tell if he's goin footslogger, mek or speed freeks. Personally, my speed freeks 2k pt army has even less models but 9 vehicles and a biker squad.

If you're playing orks and losing to guard... maybe he's just a better player than you?

Since the basilisk fires barrage, it will ignore cover saves for intervening units and/or terrain, but you'll still get a cover save if the unit is IN area terrain.

But seriously... you have no room to complain about lasgun fire power: shoota boys outshoot them at any range less than 18 inches, and single las gun shots at 24 inches are hardly worth while.

Simply put, you need fast things. Lots of trukks/stormboyz, and some deffkoptas for anti-tank. I run a list with 6 'koptas and 40 Stormboyz, and once you hit the gunline, they're screwed.

AffliKtion wrote:I do the same thing to my friend.
This is what you do, take your three trukks and load one up with Nobz and your Warboss, MAKE SURE you take the big Choppas and PK and the Painboy. This way, even your WB has FNP. Load the other two up with 12 boyz each.

Yea that would have been a great idea if I had any Trukks, I have 3 Wartrakks....

Elnicko5 wrote:"
Question #1; what do you mean, he has no templates which deny cover saves, and as an ork player you ought to stack your units so that the front units have a kffg covering them with a 5+ invuln., and the back units are behind them giving them a 4+ cover save. A 6+ armor save is negated by the AP of almost every weapon in the game, nor will it save many orks when you get it.

Q2; What is this save negated by weapon strength, I am farily sure such a thing does not exist in 5th edition, but I may be wrong.

Q3; with run waaagh and charge movements, you can cover 18+2d6 inches (with a charge) in 2 turns, how does he manage to get you in rapid fire range? How wide of a board do you play on? Even then, if you have the right set up, with cover and invuln saves, 60 lazgun shots only kills, approx. 10 orks.

Also, it seems that you dont have enough orks at the point levels you play. My 1000pt footslogger army has atleast 100 models.

Q1: Hmm.. seems that I have confused the burna template and barrage/blast templete. Skimming through the rules now, and template (burnas) deny cover saves, not barrage/blast.

Q2: Instant death rule. If weapon strenght i double or higher then T = Instant death, only INV save counts....

Q3: Yes, ye might have been abit longer apart then the rules says.... could be one reason....


So I guess the geneal suggestion from you is to invest in another squad of 30 boys? Sluggas or Shootas? Getting up to 120 boys and 1 KFF Mek? Thats almost 1000p

Then I get no Lootas, no Koptas, no nothing....

I usually wanna mix my setup (lots of boys, some lootas, burnas in BW, Koptas) for a bit more fun game, but I maybe have to keep to footslugging against IG. My mix usually work quite well aganst SM and Necrons...

Instant Death does NOT= only invulnerable saves. The only thing it means is that if a multi-wound model takes a wound from an ID weapon, then it dies, but it gets all applicable saves.

For example: a space marine captain in terminator armor is hit by a venom cannon fired by a carnifex (str 10, AP 4). The venom cannon wounds on a 2+, but the marine will get his 2+ armor save because the cannon is only AP4. If he fails his save, however, all three of his wounds are removed.

As a second example: an ork warboss on a bike is hit by the same carnifex. If the ork is wounded by the hit, he loses his 4+ armor save from the bike, however, he will be able to use the 4+ cover save that the bike grants.

I thought you had a mek?

I would make a list out of what you have,
the 20 gretchin and 30 slugga boyz, Id split the shoota boyz into 3 units of 20, add the mek, and use what points were left for flavor. Id run the gretchin and sluggas with the mek attached to one unit and no more than 6" from the other, and all 60 shoota boyz behind that. The boyz in front a are a walking shield, wiht a 5+ invuln.

Seems like part of why youve been getting beat is your not playing with according to the rules. Once you sort out the whole save issue, and willydstyle is right about the toughness bit, you ought to have his number.

willydstyle wrote:
As a second example: an ork warboss on a bike is hit by the same carnifex. If the ork is wounded by the hit, he loses 0, AP 4). The venom cannon wounds on a 2+, but the marine will get his 2+ armor save because the cannon is only AP4. If he fails his save, his 4+ armor save from the bike, however, he will be able to use the 4+ cover save that the bike grants.

I've never heard of a bike giving anything a cover save. Pie plates KILL orks as you've found out, but they also kill IG. Give your deffkoptas some bigbomms and have them turbo all the way over the IG line and drop yourself some bombs. If possible, end their turn behind cover of a large building that'll hide them from the Russ. This'll also make it difficult for the IG player to decide what to shoot. Should he move his russ to try to take out your deffkoptas or should he use his basilisk to fire at your deffkoptas. If it scatters on cover, then you can effectively argue that it does nothing due to barrage rules with buildings with multiple floors. Then turbo again OVER the IG lines and drop bigbomms on the infantry. If you hit, you can take out maybe 3 squads or so, but chances are you're going to lose your deffkoptas that turn.

Ork bikes grant their rider a 4+ armor save, and a 4+ cover save from all the smoke they generate. Broken? Yes. But that's the breaks.

Yea it seems that I (we) have some more reading to do. We have been mostly painting : ).

A stupid question...:

What cover saves i possible against blast/barrage makers? I guess a walking meat shield of Grotz will little help against barrage?

Against barrage, cover saves are determined using the center of the blast marker as the "line of sight." In the IG list, only mortars and basilisks (for now) do this.

As an example: orks are behind a wall, the blast scatters behind the orks, they get no cover save. If the blast scatters so that the wall is between the center of the blast and the orks, they get a cover save. If the orks are actually in the area terrain, they will get a cover save regardless of where the blast comes from.

If the blast marker comes from a non-barrage weapon, such as a missile launcher or leman russ battlecannon, cover is still determined from the direction of the firer. If the orks are behind the wall, even if the blast is on the same side of the wall as the orks, they get a cover save.

Against template weapons such as a flamer or hellhound, no cover saves of any kind are allowed.

a94marbo wrote:Yea that would have been a great idea if I had any Trukks, I have 3 Wartrakks....

All I can say is lol, then get some... If you can't, then take the character with the 6" auto waaagh and a wierd boy. then try to waagh twice if you even have any units left.



If not, then stop playing orks if you don't like to die.

Gazkull Thraka in a 1500 point list?


Seems like a bit of a waste of points, to me. Look into squads of Killa Kanz, as opposed to the dread. Yea, they might be a bit less dakka, but they can actually hit things while shooting.

Another point to note would be Kommandos, which, if i'm not confused or mistaken, can outflank, forcing your opponent to keep off the edges of the board, and that AV 10 rear armor in an assault really puts them into a position to get all Killy McTankrape with anything that might be a threat.

And if your friend is paying 25 points to upgrade the basilisk to lay down indirect fire, he's a moron. Minimum range for that kind of shelling is 36", so keeping it off of any table smaller than 8x6 would be a really good idea.

The whole key to playing against a shooty army is to advance as quickly as you can and assualt. Units that can't advance quickly need to advance in cover. An adequate amount of terrain is required on the table to be able to accomplish this. My preferred method is a battlewagon with a Big Mek with KFF and 19 boyz in it. Add a Deff Rolla to the BW to make the IG troops cringe. A truck to the left and a truck to the right with a warboss and ard boyz in one and nobz with painboyz in the other. Keep the trucks within 6" of vehicle with the big mek in it for a 50% miss chance (hooray!). Assualt vehilcle and troops as you desire. Make sure you give the truck rams in case you need to move some of his infantry with a tank shock.

If you need to take some heat off of your army for the first turn or two zip your deffcoptas right up in front of him. He is unlikely to kill them with lasgun fire so he'll have to dedicate some anti-vehicle fire to them lest you start hitting his pricey vehicles with rokkits. With you 24" turbo boost over terrain you should be able to use some of his units to block line of sight. Your coptas will probably die, but it's less shooting going at your vehicle spearhead.

You are right Thalor, deffkoptas are one of the best units against the IG for the most part.

Heres what happens to me almost all of the time, 6 deffkoptas turbo over my gunline, drop bigbomms(they ignore restrictions on firing after moving), kill 4 of my men per bomb, then wait for retribution. I'm used to this though and so my remaining infantry light up the deffkoptas with las fire and usually autocannons and lascannons while I keep my armor focused on the ork armor gunning my way. However, your foe is using rockets and get less shots than I do and I usually have about 80 to 100 men.

The point is, if you haven't used this tactic before, it should surprise your foe. Don't expect it to work every time of course. If hes able to focus his attacks, he can really do damage to a lot of your men, remember that most trukks and ork transports are open topped and take extra damage from ordnance weapons.

Everytime you win the roll to start, have your koptas scout move + move + assault. That'll take care of his tanks right from the bat. If he gets the first turn, outflank them. Two tanks shouldn't really be able to do that much damage though.

Take a snikrot. that should keep the basilisks honest.

halonachos wrote:You are right Thalor, deffkoptas are one of the best units against the IG for the most part.

Heres what happens to me almost all of the time, 6 deffkoptas turbo over my gunline, drop bigbomms(they ignore restrictions on firing after moving), kill 4 of my men per bomb, then wait for retribution. I'm used to this though and so my remaining infantry light up the deffkoptas with las fire and usually autocannons and lascannons while I keep my armor focused on the ork armor gunning my way. However, your foe is using rockets and get less shots than I do and I usually have about 80 to 100 men.

The point is, if you haven't used this tactic before, it should surprise your foe. Don't expect it to work every time of course. If hes able to focus his attacks, he can really do damage to a lot of your men, remember that most trukks and ork transports are open topped and take extra damage from ordnance weapons.

Open topped vehicles no longer have the "vulnerable to blasts" USR if that's what you're talking about.

I personally first turn charge wit the deffkoptas 4 in a squad usually earn their points back in the first turn that they are active... I agree that you should outflank if he gets to go first as he will not be able to destroy them and he will bunch up toward the center...

I once tried the whole deep striking route with the Warphead & boyz it does not turn out so well because when you deep strike you emerge all bunched up...

Kommandos & Snikrot can cause a lot of panic to gun line players as he will now need to stay about 12-18" away from every edge or waste a turn of firing by moving... just give Snikrot 15 kommandos to lead and give two of the kommandos Burnas... This will give them power weapons against heavy armor but more importantly it will wipe out units as it covers them in two flame templates. Just hope you can assault another unit that is close by as kommandos with Snikrot will easily make things that are not fearless or behave like terminators with FNP scatter and die...

Personally I like kannons because they are quite cheap, they can drop templates that cut through a guardsman armor and launch S8 shots that blow up tanks and kill Ogryns dead with Insta-Death but I would only get them if you do not want a battlewagon for your boyz (IE: you are playing Green Tide / Footsloggin not Speed freaks or Mechanized... If you do get the Kannons it might be a good Idea to add more grots to man the kannon as losing 2 will result in am entire squadron of 3 running away... also a runtherder gives them LD 7 with the ability to re-roll failed saves...

Remember that when you play Orks, a lot of the lads will not be coming home but do not worry as 10 Boyz can beat even 10 space marines with bolterguns in HTH and I know for a fact that Space Marines are 3x as strong as guardsman in HTH so do not worry...

It may serve you better to have all your boyz wield choppa and sluggas as Running will help you get to his lines faster. Also make all the Mobs 30 boyz so when they shoot they will not take out 25% of your forces so easily... and believe me they will so be prepared with a NOb with a BP, preferably with a PK so you can assault tanks and Insta-kill Ogryns but a Big Choppa will suffice against guardsman... Do not see a mob of 30 as 30 models see it as a single model with 31 W and will have 4 S9 power klaw attacks and maybe 20 S4 attacks when the dust settles in HTH...

Learning the rules about screening a 4+ cover saves will be a huge boon as it effectively cuts your casualties from shooting in half... if you still go with the mobs of 20 I would have the mobs with the shoota guns in the front soaking up the lasguns fire and sending some fire back... they will die there is no way around it.... but the squads behind them will charge at nearly full strength and baring flamers, he will be unable to stop THE GREEN TIDE!!!!! Speaking of cover saves, Invest in a Mek with a KFF, they cost the same as a warp-head and they will save your units when it comes to shooting times... also KFF and walkers = a bad day for your opponent as he will have to glance/penentrate and hope for less than a four on a d6.

You can find all the models mentioned in a AOBR box set and I am sure there are people out there that wouldn't mind selling/trading you some of the things you need... I checked what you own and a awesome horde slaying tactic is to put 12 Burna boyz in a battle wagon and give it the KillKannon... the result is a large gun that kills MEQS and 12 flamer templates on 1 unit... S4 hits may not be much but when there is 96 to 108 S4 HITS and about half of them wound... needless to say it is difficult to save 48-54 wounds even with a 2+ save...

well I hope you crush those puny uumans... they are too noisy and fight like grots...