Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, so I am up to around 3500 points of Chaos goodies in my EC army and it's time to start another army.....I have decided to start up Mechdar......

I have almost certainly honed in on......

Autarch on jetbike
9 guardian jetbikes and exarch or Spears and Exarch

2 DA squads and a transport

where should I go next?

Things I've considered.......
Farseer and 9 warlocks with witchblades...etc on jetbikes or in a transport............which is better??
Couple Prisms
Fire Dragons and transport
Banshees and transport
maybe a Phoenix Lord for one of the above, why don't people use the Phoenix Lords more often? You hardly ever see any lists on here with them.

Also, I want to stay away from Eldrad. I know he is good but I just don't want to use him

I eventually want to get up to around 2000 for this army.....
What do you guys think?

jetbike seer council is far far superior to either mounted or foot warlocks. The re-rollable 3+ save makes them next-to-invulnerable to the multi-shot weapons that are normally good against them.

I don't use Eldrad and I do fine.

But I do use Maugan Ra and he is awesomesauce. He killed two wraithlords almost entirely on his own today, between rending and ignoring cover saves, and having 4 str 6 power weapon attacks at WS and Init 7 he's really good in both CC and Shooting.

I like scorpions much better than banshees. They're tougher, and only marginally worse against MEQs than banshees, but much, much better against almost any other target. They're big problem is lack of fleet.

anyone have a detailed step by step on converting the jetlocks?

P

A jetbike heavy army has a large footprint. That can be severe drawback.
Therefore, I suggest a mix of jetbike squadrons and transported units in Serpents. Eldar transports can be fortuned and so eventually stay longer alive.

To implement this, take Autarch on jetbike, Farseer on jetbike (fortuning jetbikers), Shining Spears, and Guardian Jetbikes.
Moreover, add DA with Serpents, one unit of Pathfinders, and fill all heavy support slots with naked Prisms.

Pathfinders in Eldar army? You must be talking about rangers

Pathfinder is an upgrade for ur rangers, never leave home without it

wuestenfux wrote:A jetbike heavy army has a large footprint. That can be severe drawback.

You should use this to your advantage, by forcing your opponent to move where you want him to move. Last night I moved my Bike Concil in front of this guys entire Mech Chaos army. My council was locked in CC until the end of turn 7 by his ENTIRE ARMY, they ate through two havoc squads, a basic CSM squad, a Deamon Prince and a squad of Beserkers. all the while the rest of my army picked off his tanks.

If I had not been able to fill up such a large section of the board with 12 jetbikes then he would've been able to maneuver around me.

And for 120pts for a 5man squad.. the really do not budge versus all normal weaponary. 2+ cover saves just rocks large amounts of flavoursome sauce. Obviously, anti-cover save weapons are a big no-no & must be avoided. Against whirlwinds-types..deploy with a roof/floor level above thier heads & against standard ordanence, simply deploy in area terrain. Verus all other anti-cover save weapons, use thier mobility in infiltrating deployement & free scout rule move before the game starts for oppertune placement...and if need be, their ability to move through difficult terrain at no penalty (if required to hold objectives/live another day..when running away from flamers hehe). Past that, their superior sniping ability (best in the game IMhO) can be used to great effect.

just2fierce wrote:anyone have a detailed step by step on converting the jetlocks?

P

I've done a couple and it comes down to the expensive way thats fast vs the cheaper time consuming way.

Fast way you start with Shining Spear, Jetbike Autarch,or the special order shrieker jetbikes + warlocks or farseers. Then start cutting heads off of the seers and lock and transplanting them.

The slower way is a regular guardian jetbike and warlock.
You cut the lock at the waist.
Then again on the arms(Has to be model with outstretched right arm thats facing forward).
Removing the arms and cleaning up the body requires that you have a pretty good rotary tool set with the proper grinding bits.
When you get the body clean enough you then drill a recess to create a shoulder socket.
Then round the lower torso so that it fits into the jetbikes guardian legs.
Attach the prepped warlock torso to the legs that are already attached to the bike.
I personally take the spear/sword that the model was holding and clean it up then affix it to one of the extra autarch or whatever right arm you happen to have handy.
The left arm is the guardian jetbike arm.
Then enough green stuff to keep it from looking like an Eldar Pariah.

Maybe someday I'll get around to posting some of my conversions.

Hope this helps

My Jetlock conversion.....

Legs from bike, torso from dire avenger, head from avengers, one arm from bike rider, avenger dire sword for witch blade.

Farseer on bike.....

Legs from bike, torso from dire avengers, head from avenger exarch, one arm from bike rider, avenger dire sword for witch blade.

singing spear...

use avenger spear.

regular bikes.....

bike legs, guardian torsos, guardian heads.

This is my current project. I will have pictures next week. I have 50 jetbikes, 50 direavengers, 2-3 wave serpents, 6 vypers and 3 fire prisms for starters.

Originally was going to do the metal warlock jetlocks, but too labor intensive. Also, not very forgiving if mistakes are made.

That plastic kit-bashing sounds alot easier than all the metal work with the locks. I would love to see a couple pics....



Is the Autarch on jetbike with spears any good? Anyone tried it, and how'd you use them?

I actually cut the gunners mount out of a vyper and mounted the Autarch(Prince Nadua) in the pilots seat.

I then took the back tip over the exhaust ports and filed them to where the banners would mount there.

Bikelock armies are powerful, but frankly I find the all-mounted-infantry approach more fun. There's something about managing all those tanks and infantry that's more fun than charging an uber-unit straight at the enemy every game.

Fortunately, as Wuestenfux mentions the rest of your army will look similar in either build. And when you get bored of the Bike Council, you can either keep them stashed for super-competitive environments (and Apoc!), or sell them for a ton of cash on eBay to players too lazy to convert their own.

OP, of the units you mention in your starting post (which are a good selection BTW), I would say only the Shining Spears are iffy. They get shot up pretty quickly. If you learn to move and protect your transport units correctly, you can get a unit of Banshees or Harlies to move just as quickly and hit much harder overall.

Also, many mech eldar players subscribe to a redundancy rule- never have just one unit that fulfills a given task, like killing vehicles etc. This is even more important than in other armies, because when Skimmers crash they crash hard, and also sometimes you have to split your limited forces to get a job done. You're probably already used to that from playing Chaos. The upside is that your transports can really help cover weak spots. I field TL brighlances on many of my Serpents to cover an anti-vehicle weakness. Given the troops you have listed so far, you may have the same issue. Magnetize your transport weapons, so that you can switch when you run Bikelocks (who can eat tanks for breakfast) vs. all-transported-infantry.

One more good thing about mech Eldar- it's pretty concentrated model-wise, so with an average number of infantry models plus 6 or so tanks, you can play around with a lot of configurations. Try them all out, don't just take our word for it.

And good luck with your new army!

The other thing to think about is that the Bike council is subjected to shooting from turn 1 on, where as the mounted wave serpent council is safe from small arms while aboard the transport. They are just as effective in either case on the charge, but the bikelock's increased toughness will win out in a protracted combat, and also against the return fire in the enemy's next turn.

Frankly though, the council in a serpent is still a tough nut to crack for the majority of armies. (Plus the models are cool.)

As for conversions, the easiest way to do it is to use shining spears. The exarch becomes the farseer (because he has antlers) and the regular dudes are warlocks. If you want to add swords, use the dire avenger or storm guardian swords. Paint their helmets all gem-like or whatever and "voila", no cutting or hacking or even all that expensive.

What about the phoenix lords? 1 poster said he uses Maugan Ra, what about the other Phoenix Lords? If I go the jet-council route I may take one and try it out......Maybe the Fire Dragon one Fuegan, I think is his name or what about the Dire Avenger one?

I think if I go for the transport mounted council I'll prolly take 2 but if I go for the jet-council only 1 to save oh, around 500 points. Would that be a good idea?

What is the deal with swooping hawks, like noone plays with them?

I prefer the Council in a WS over a Bikecouncil...mostly because I can stick Eldrad in the mounted squad, and he can't have a bike. Plus, I like ot run the Avvy + 2 WLs sometimes, and by having the Counil in a WS, i can keep them within 6 of the Avvy to fortune him and within 12" of the WLs to avaois Wraithsight...all while my COuncil (and Eldrad) from being targets, thanks to the WS.

bike council isnt bad atall, and as said, the large footprint can help by pinning units in place and stopping them from moving past.
allthough its a tad expensive to do this to an army if your blocking a dedicated CC unit, as they will break through.

if your going for a Plord then take a medium unit of that aspect, throw him / her in a wave with the warriors.
i would take either zar. (banshee) or karan. (scorps) or possibly maugan and some reaps just sat back in cover.

I thought Maugan Ra was generally considered better off with a squad not of his own aspect?

what type of squad would you suggest?
as he would slow most down.

I put Maugan Ra with pathfinders. It works nicely, since he gives them some protection from CC, and they both have rending weapons. Since Ra has Move Through Cover, he can pretty easily split off when I need to use him against a different target, or go out to assault something.

just2fierce wrote:What about the phoenix lords? 1 poster said he uses Maugan Ra, what about the other Phoenix Lords? If I go the jet-council route I may take one and try it out......Maybe the Fire Dragon one Fuegan, I think is his name or what about the Dire Avenger one?

Well, Phoenix Lords are too expensive for what they can achieve on the battle field.
I'd keep them for friendly games.

If you go for a Jetbike Council take a fortuning Farseer and an Autarch on jetbike with laser lance.
He fits very well into this theme as he as the same invulnerable save as the Warlocks and
his ability to add +1 to reserve rolls allows you to keep the army in reserve (only if you play
a mech theme).