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Please excuse me if I am too long winded!

New Member here but, I am a returning 40k player. Some quick background: I have not played since 3rd Edition. I had played 40k for several years as an ork player. I have been reading up on the new rules recently so I am fairly well versed in the changes that have taken place but please excuse me if I am unfamiliar with certain things.

Now on to my question. I want to start a new army. I was always taken with the idea of running an "elite" army of sorts. Specifically an idea of a CSM force. I love love love the idea of a terminator heavy army. By definition of Elite I mean an army with not a huge model count. I would be looking to start at around 1500 pts, and build from there. If I had to favor a CSM force it would be the Emperor's Children. So what I am asking for, could a feasible list be made in this way. I know EC can get quite heavy points wise, even if I was to not use terminators. Preliminarily here is what I was thinking of using:

2-3 Squads of Termies, tooled out for CC
2-3 Squads of EC regulars ( Not sure how to equip weapon wise.)
Bikes ( I really loved the way they worked in 3rd ed., not sure how effective they essentially are now)
Daemonettes
Vehicles: EC regulars in Rhinos? Or termies in a LR possibly?


Those are the models I really enjoy. Not to say I only want to use those. I am totally open for suggestions here, even if it were to be on a different army! I also want to add I want to make a semi-competitive list. As I said I would like it to be feasible and able to achieve victory, but it does not necessarily have to be made specifically to win games.

Thank you for your help/Suggestions!

One of the most competitive lists in play at the moment revolves around the Slaaneshi psychic power Lash of Submission.

Start by taking 2 HQs (there are arguments in favor of both daemon princes and sorcerors), and give them Lash.

Add Obliterators (feel free to convert out of Noise Marine terminators, if that's the look you want). 4 is minimum, 6 is good, 9 is best.

Fill a couple Troops slots with plaguemarines. You can use Noise Marines for a fluffier (but less optimal) variant. Sonic blasters are still useful; blastmasters are great. Min-sized squads give you access to the most firepower per point spent.

For variation, feel free to swap in a Land Raider w/a transported squad, or grab the odd pack of Lesser Daemons, or swap cult marines for generic CSMs. (Note that Daemonettes, as such, aren't available to CSMs anymore. Instead, you get "Lesser Daemons.")

Well first of all, "daemonettes" are a daemon army only unit... CSM gets a very generic daemon that can assault the turn they come on, along with a not so bad generic GD

SM elite army: Dark Angels' Deathwing. An entire army of Terminators/Dreadnauts

CSM elite army: Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission or whatever it's called. Get two troop choices, preferably EC or Nurgle troops. 9 Obliterators. I don't know the exact points on that but it can't be too close to 1500 like you wanted. After you get that base down, get another DP then try just different troop choices, the only thing in the army that really needs to remain static is the DP and the Oblits. You can always take less oblits, just getting the max of 9 is fun to see people squirm against.
That's about the most "elite" I have seen them get. I've never seen someone do well with CSM Termies.

I'm not sure if Bikes are any good for CSM but they are for SM.

[edit]
Sorry for basically a repeat of above post, was posted 3 seconds later

You could make this army work...kind of. The chaos codex kind of removed a lot of the flavor from various chaos armies, but it's still doable.

ECs in rhinos would pack a punch, hit at I5 and be able to take things like a power weapon to take advantage of it. A Doom siren would really soften up MEQ units that you got close to as well.

Daemonettes...well, they don't exist anymore in the chaos codex. Hello "lesser daemons". But you can still use them, and they're not terrible, but I havent played with them in a while, the genericness annoys me.

Bikes...I haven't really used any chaos bikes in 5e. They seem really expensive. 6 Bikes with a biker champion, Mark of Slaanesh, power weapon, melta bombs and two melta guns would be 273 points...ouch. Not a lot of wounds there.

CC termies with mark of slaanesh are fun and work well. Lightning claws+ I5...good night.

I think if you did this list as a Land Raider heavy list it would definitely be fit under semi-competitive, if only because land raiders are pretty good in 5e. Mech in general is pretty competitive...

Not an amazing army by any means but I wouldn't sneeze at something like:

3 x 6 noise marines in a rhinos with doom siren, power weapon

6x terminators with MoS and lightning claws in a land raider

4x Bikes with 2x meltagun, champion with power weapon, MoS, icon

Sorcerer with MoS, lash of submission.

You could add things like Lesser Daemons to drop off of icons but it's been a while since I played with any lesser daemons so I don't know exactly who can and cant have an icon.


The other way to do it, as mentioned, is to Spam Lash of Submission and Obliterators. And it works very, very well. But I don't really feel that obliterators are as slaanesh-fluffy as land raiders may be, even if they are very effective.

Iyanden.

Thanks for the input so far guys. Just some feedback and more questions because you guys have me thinking a lot now.

If I were to put EC's in Rhino's would I want to give them all Sonic Blasters and a Blastmaster per squad? Or is that defeating the purpose?

Would Termies be better off in a LR or Deep Striking?

Would using 2 squads of termies be wasteful?

Again I would def. use the terminators in a CC role.

Love the idea of the Daemon Prince with LOS, how else would you equip them though?

As far as Oblits, I feel as if I did not take them in deep gak against armor. Unless of course I use bikes, but they are a real fire magnet from what I remember, and they are damn expensive now.

Go dual lash Nurgle Marines with Obliterators.

Plague Marines are expensive points-wise, and one of the few units that can justify their points cost. These guys are basically immune to small arms fire. Park nurgle Marines in a rhino on an objective and it'll take concentrated pwnage to hack them off of it.

Lash princes are the single greatest strength of the Chaos Codex. Take two and now it's just CWAZY.

Obliterators wreck face in anything but assault with horde units, which should legitimately be shot to death before the assault bog is a problem.

At 1500 points your model count should be approximately 40 or so total models with 6-9 Obliterators. Small, elite, and effective.

If you're going with MoS...I'd definitely put the termies in a land raider instead of deep striking them

Blastmasters seem expensive to me, as do sonic blasters, but I don't actually know. They do give the ability to shoot twice and assault, which would be nice. Makes the squad a little expensive though. It isn't defeating the purpose though - the Mech isn't necessarily to assult, just to be mobile and protected. 5e rewards mobility and armor is harder to kill than 4e (no idea on 3e, but probably not as good)

I think at 1500 points two squads of teleporting assault terminators would be hard to pull off. If this was Space marines maybe (TH/SS for the 3+ invulnerable) but with just a 2+/5++ a lot of armies can put the hurt on them in the turn they come in, without the right support. Something like 5 lightning claws, chainfist/heavy flamer, and 4 combi...something (melta? flamer?) might give the squad enough first turn shooting punch to balance it out and make it scary both on the drop and in assault. But thats a 405 point squad with 10 termies.

Sourclams list is what is widely acknowledged as the framework for the most-competitive CSM list. Plague marines, Dual Lash, and oblits.

But you can definitely field a semi-competitive army with noise marines instead of plague marines...it just won't be as good. And you can definitely find other anti-tank than 6 or 9 oblits...but it also won't be as good. Land Raiders do have other advantages though, as do noise marines.

Sample list I was playing with: Only thing that worries me would be horde armies, although the noise marines can pump out a hell of a lot of Crowd Control Firepower

Daemon Prince: 135pts
MOS, Lash of Submission

5xTerminators:225pts
Icon of Slaanesh
4/w Lightning Claws
Champion with Lightning Claws

Land Raider:220

Noise Marines x8 in Rhino : 300
6 w/Sonic Blaster 1w/Blastmaster
Champion w/Power Weapon / Doom Siren

Noise Marines x8 in Rhino : 300
6 w/Sonic Blaster 1w/Blastmaster
Champion w/Power Weapon /Doom Siren

Obliterator Cult x4: 300pts


1500 Total

While I like sonic blaster noise marines a lot, I don't like the dual-purpose noise marine squads you have. They're very inflated in cost, and this is something you can little afford.

IMO I'd stick to either the blast master, or the doom siren champion in each squad. Blast master for a stick-back-and-blow-things-up unit, doom siren for an up-close unit.

You can't have one unit of 4 oblits, so you'll need to split that up into two units of 2 each.

willydstyle wrote:While I like sonic blaster noise marines a lot, I don't like the dual-purpose noise marine squads you have. They're very inflated in cost, and this is something you can little afford.

IMO I'd stick to either the blast master, or the doom siren champion in each squad. Blast master for a stick-back-and-blow-things-up unit, doom siren for an up-close unit.

You can't have one unit of 4 oblits, so you'll need to split that up into two units of 2 each.

Thanks for the feedback again. The reason I gave them both the blastmaster and the Doom siren was as you said so they are diverse. I could use them as stationary fire units, or assaulting units. I did this because I would be worried only assaulting with the my terminators. I know the rules have changed but back in 3ed. if you were going against an army that needed to be assaulted you were in deep crap if only one unit could do it. Gosh I remember some games against the necron and tau.....

It took me a while to get back to the computer but I really wanted to get a idea for an army list out to you that at least hit most of the original idea.

Sorceror: Term Armour, MoS, Lash
Chaos Terms x4, MoS, Lightning Claws
All in a Land Raider

Noise Marines x8, Blastmaster
Noise Marines x8, Blastmaster

Chaos Bikers x5, Melta x2
Chaos Bikers x5, Melta x2

Terminators x6, MoS

Now I know its not "Optimized" for killing, but I feel that it fits the feel your looking for. I would rather enjoy throwing a army like this down, simply because it holds a 50/50 chance of winning a friendly game.