Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Basically long story short: I’ve been converting a robotic renegade mechanicus cult force recently and was planning to use the Necron Codex for it. However the Necrons aren’t doing too good at the moment for competitive games and since most of the players I face have competitive armies I decided to create a 2nd list using the Daemon codex.
It seems the best solution as most of the robots I’ve built to represent Necron units can easily represent the Tzeentch daemons as well. For example the robot on the left represents a horror and the one on the right a flamer, meaning I don’t need to alter my models in any way.



Basically the list is based around what models I plan to build for my Necron army with the exception of the Screamers who I’ve already come up with a conversion for. It’s my first daemon army so I really need some feedback for it.

HQ
333- Fateweaver
(Support the princes)

ELITE
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
(Do some serious damage on a heavily armoured unit)

TROOPS
170 – 10 Horrors
170 – 10 Horrors
170 – 10 Horrors
(Your basic unit, appear and shoot or if there is enemy ordnance run and spread out)
78 – 6 Nurgling Swarms
(Something to hold up devastators and other heavy weapon squads)

FAST ATTACK
48 – 3 Screamers
(Basic Tank hunting unit, if there are not tanks they'll hide and contest objectives.)

HEAVY SUPPORT
160 - Daemon Prince:Deamonic Gaze, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
160 - Daemon Prince:Deamonic Gaze, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
(Main assault units their job is to draw fire away from the horrors)

Total Pts: 1499
Total No: 49 (3)
Total Kill Pts: 11

What do you think to the list, also what should I include in my first wave? Is the list effective?

Also please no negative comments about my decision to use the models I have no intention of taking them to a tournament it’s just for friendly games at my local club so it shouldn’t a problem.

A couple of comments:

Nurglings are swarms, and swarms don't count as scoring for purposes of holding objectives, so at most they can contest.

Your points are off on the flamers, 3 flamers are 105 points.

For your daemon princes. Remember giving them the mark of tzeentch gives them a 4+ invlu, I don't think iron hide is worth it on the tzeentch dp's. You would be better off dropping it for a bolt of tzeentch for some additional tank punch. A really nice setup for them is mark, daemonic gaze, and bolt.

You usually will want to scatter your horrors out so that they can't get multi-charged, fateweaver's ability isn't really going to help them all that much. You would be better served dropping fateweaver and putting in tzeentch heralds on chariots, blue scribes or something else.

Screamers aren't all that great and if your opponent has no tanks you are just going to be hosed. I would drop the screamers and put in another unit of flamers.

I agree with warmaster. Drop the nurglings, pick up two heralds of tzeench on chariot, and give both DP daemoinc gaze. This will add to your firepower.

extrenm(54) wrote:I agree with warmaster. Drop the nurglings, pick up two heralds of tzeench on chariot, and give both DP daemoinc gaze. This will add to your firepower.

I don't have models suited for representing heralds of tzeench on chariots, also I've updated the list with the correct points and improved it a little.

Though I am considering if the Fateweaver is too expensive for a 1500pt army?

Hmm, okay what are you using as fateweaver?

I see you kept the nurglings, what kind of conversion did you do for them?

If you give us some more pictures we might be able to find better/more effective fits for them.

Also what are you using as the screamers?

Without knowing what models you have available/willing to build, I really can't give any useful feedback.

Centurian99 wrote:Without knowing what models you have available/willing to build, I really can't give any useful feedback.

Alright then...

Here are photos of the models and what each is representing...

Iron Guard = Horrors: http://fc16.deviantart.com/fs43/f/2009/065/2/c/Iron_Guard_Robot_Model_by_Proiteus.jpg
Dragoons = Flamers: http://fc34.deviantart.com/fs41/i/2009/030/0/9/Zanatorian_Dragoon_Mk3_Model_by_Proiteus.jpg
Steel Scorpions = Nurglings: http://fc99.deviantart.com/fs41/f/2009/032/9/d/9dea3a6fe7e4bf6fd286e2952de5d1fd.jpg
Golems = Deamon Princes: http://fc85.deviantart.com/fs42/f/2009/077/0/b/Zanatorian_Golem_Unpainted_by_Proiteus.jpg

I'm currently working on the conversions for the Screamers and Lord Of Change.
If you'd like to see more view the production log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/228258.page

As for the list I've replaced the Fateweaver with a Lord Of The Change and 1 extra horror for each squad and 2 extra screamers (so they can surive long enough to do their job), also I've replaced Deamonic Gaze with Unholy might they are my main assault units afterall.

In that case, the biggest suggestion I can make is to take as many flamers as you can. The second suggestion would be to have whatever you're making into screamers rep as something assaulty, unless you want to totally stick to the tzeentch thing, in which case you're [probably better off with more flamers.

Centurian99 wrote:The second suggestion would be to have whatever you're making into screamers rep as something assaulty, unless you want to totally stick to the tzeentch thing, in which case you're [probably better off with more flamers.

Tempting but with the new guard codex and people using land raider redeemers I feel it's best to have a small squad of them. Plus it allows me to focus on infrantry with the rest of my force.

Screamers are not that great, i had more luck giving my Horrors Bolt of Tzeentch then the screamers making it into assault. Drop Fateweaver and take a generic greater daemon of Tzeentch if you want to do that. Also The Blue Scribes and Heralds of Tzeentch add to your fire power, as they can be upgraded to shoot 2 weapons a turn at 2 other targets. Theres some of my suggestions. I normally run a GUO, Herald of Tzeentch, Bunch of Horrors, Flamers and 3 Soul Grinders in 1750 point games. Its up to you though

Proiteus wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:The second suggestion would be to have whatever you're making into screamers rep as something assaulty, unless you want to totally stick to the tzeentch thing, in which case you're [probably better off with more flamers.

Tempting but with the new guard codex and people using land raider redeemers I feel it's best to have a small squad of them. Plus it allows me to focus on infrantry with the rest of my force.

If you really want to hunt land raiders, the best things in the Chaos Daemons codex are Bloodthirsters and Soul Grinders. Screamers just don't cut it.

Bare Soulgrinders are pretty cheap, and are pretty decent for their point cost, I only give them upgrades when i just need to fill in 25 pts.

They come with a flame and a 6 shooter (yes, daemons are secretly cowboys) on top of dual dreadnaught ccw.

Bloodthirsters and regular Lords of Change are not enough for what they cost, taking fateweaver next to like 1 or 2 squads of Plaguebearers can be really hard to fight because they don't die and with the GD support they can kill as well

Honestly, I think any kind of combination of daemons can work as long as you have 1 or 2 squads of PBs, they are the glue that keeps the army together, every other troop choice either doesn't count as scoring or is too fragile to be a real contender

Converting your current stuff into PBs can't be too hard, compared to what you've done already, just make them slimy or something and maybe a sword because they technically are suppose to have swords.

Also, kudos to those awesome conversions and don't give up hope with necrons, they aren't out of the fight yet in 5th ed.

Nenya97 wrote:Bloodthirsters and regular Lords of Change are not enough for what they cost, taking fateweaver next to like 1 or 2 squads of Plaguebearers can be really hard to fight because they don't die and with the GD support they can kill as well

Bloodthirsters are absolutely the king. Don't be fooled by the codex - they come stock with Unholy Might and cost 270.

WS10, base S8 and the 3+/4++ save are ridiculously good.

Well here’s what I’ll be using for my first game (I think)…

HQ
285 – Lord Of Change: Instrument Of Chaos and Breath Of Chaos
(A force to be reckoned with, he will likely support the deamon princes.)

ELITE
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
(Do some serious damage on a heavily armored unit and hopefully survive for another killing spree)

TROOPS
195 – 10 Horrors: Chaos Icon
195 – 10 Horrors: Chaos Icon
192 – 11 Horrors: Changeling
(Dakka Dakka Dakka , the Changeling though good will certainally be a challenge to convert)

FAST ATTACK
48 – 3 Screamers
48 – 3 Screamers
(Still unsure on if I should go for 2 squads of 3 since most armies will have a good amount of vehciles or to merge them into a unit of 5?)

HEAVY SUPPORT
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
(Still my main assault and tank hunting units)

Total Pts: 1493
Total No: 41 (3)
Total Kill Pts: 10

1st Wave: Lord Of Change, 3 Flamers, 10 Horrors with Icon, 3 Screamers and 1 Deamon Prince.
2nd Wave: 3 Flamers, 10 Horrors with Icon, 11 Horrors with Changeling, 3 Screamers and Deamon Prince.

Proiteus wrote:Well here’s what I’ll be using for my first game (I think)…

HQ
285 – Lord Of Change: Instrument Of Chaos and Breath Of Chaos
(A force to be reckoned with, he will likely support the deamon princes.)

ELITE
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
(Do some serious damage on a heavily armored unit and hopefully survive for another killing spree)

TROOPS
195 – 10 Horrors: Chaos Icon
195 – 10 Horrors: Chaos Icon
192 – 11 Horrors: Changeling
(Dakka Dakka Dakka , the Changeling though good will certainally be a challenge to convert)

FAST ATTACK
48 – 3 Screamers
48 – 3 Screamers
(Still unsure on if I should go for 2 squads of 3 since most armies will have a good amount of vehciles or to merge them into a unit of 5?)

HEAVY SUPPORT
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
(Still my main assault and tank hunting units)

Total Pts: 1493
Total No: 41 (3)
Total Kill Pts: 10

1st Wave: Lord Of Change, 3 Flamers, 10 Horrors with Icon, 3 Screamers and 1 Deamon Prince.
2nd Wave: 3 Flamers, 10 Horrors with Icon, 11 Horrors with Changeling, 3 Screamers and Deamon Prince.

Put the Lord of change with your Flamers, that way they both move as Jump Infantry and both have breath of chaos.

storm knight wrote:Put the Lord of change with your Flamers, that way they both move as Jump Infantry and both have breath of chaos.

Clever cause he has 4 wounds thus making the majority toughness 6, thats if it is legal can a monstrous creature character join a squad?

no it is not legal.
Storm Knight was wrong

Nenya97 wrote:no it is not legal.
Storm Knight was wrong

Thought so

Play tested the list last week with someone else’s deamons, worked a treat beating a Tau army 11 to 1 kill points. However following that game I’ve decided to split my 3 squads of 10 into 4 squads of 8 this gives me an extra scoring unit and splits the fire a bit better instead of firing 30 shots at a single unit. Still unsure on what to use on my deamon princes deamonic gaze for the extra shooting or strengthen their combat role with unholy might?

HQ
320 – Lord Of Change: We Are Legion and Breath Of Chaos

ELITE
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch
105 – 3 Flamers Of Tzeentch

TROOPS
161 – 8 Horrors: Chaos Icon
161 – 8 Horrors: Chaos Icon
136 – 8 Horrors
141 – 7 Horrors: Changeling

FAST ATTACK
48 – 3 Screamers

HEAVY SUPPORT
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.
160 - Daemon Prince: Unholy Might, Bolt and Mark Of Tzeentch.

Total Pts: 1497
Total No: 41 (3)
Total Kill Pts: 10

1st Wave: Lord Of Change, 3 Flamers, 8 Horrors with Icon, 7 Horrors with Changeling and Deamon Prince.

2nd Wave: 3 Flamers, 8 Horrors with Icon, 8 Horrors, 3 Screamers and Deamon Prince.

This is where I see why I don't like the regular Lord of Change: in this list he has 2 powers and costs 13 pts less than fateweaver.

Other than that, I think the list is awesome. If there was some way to add in fateweaver instead of the LoC then it would be perfect.

Just out of curiosity, how did the screamers work out for you? And what did the tau army you tried it out against look like?

Warmaster wrote:Just out of curiosity, how did the screamers work out for you? And what did the tau army you tried it out against look like?

The Screamers did well bringing a hammerhead to the ground, sadly my opponent had his vehciles spaced out too much so my screamers only managed to take down one vehcile, but that was one less to worry about. As for the list it featured 2 battlesuit units, 2 hammerheads, 1 Skyray, 6 stealthsuits and lots of fire warriors. Let me just say thank god for 4+ saves and a LOC higher stats than the Fateweaver, I originally was going to take.

Also here is some additional units that will be added to the list for higher point games.

EXTRA UNITS FOR 1750pts
110 – Herald Of Tzeentch: Chariot & Bolt Of Tzeentch, We Are Legion and Mastery Of Sorcery.
(A good resilient and fast moving powerhouse!)
65 – 5 Nurgling Swarms
65 – 5 Nurgling Swarms
(It was going to be an all Tzeentch army but I need something to fend off assault units from the horrors and these guys are the perfect tar-pit units, I likely convert them as swarms of blue horrors)
10 – Instruments for the Princes

EXTRA UNITS FOR 2000pts
110 – Herald Of Tzeentch: Chariot & Bolt Of Tzeentch, We Are Legion and Mastery Of Sorcery.
(Another resilient and fast moving powerhouse for my opponent to deal with)
140 – 2 Extra flamers for each squad
(Toughen up those two squads)

What do you think, should I make any changes to the unit priority, athough I am considering swapping the 2 Nurglings units for 8 horrors in the 1500pt list?

Heralds on Chariots + Bolt are VERY VERY nice for games that will have a lot of tanks. (You might wanna get 4 converted for the new release of guard... there will be a LOT of tank heavy lists out there!) the DP's also look nice, although wings would be nice for them.