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According to the BBB when checking for LOS for vehicles you "...trace the line of sight from each
weapons’ mounting and along its barrel". (p.58)

How do you apply the quoted rule to the Exorcist?

Here is a pic of the Exorcist:



As I see it there are three possibilities (for the record, I assume that the barrels are the organ pipes):

1) Tracing the LOS along the barrel means that the vehicle can only trace a LOS to targets that are above it (!?!). (I would call this the RAW interpretation).
This one is plain silly since the vehicle would be useless.

2) Trace LOS from the nozzle of the longest barrel in any direction. Might also be from the center of the longest/shortes barrel.
This one creates an very unfair situation. One could park the Exorcist behind another vehicle or a suitable piece of terrain and shoot at the enemy with being able to be shoot at since LOS needs to be drawn to the hull or the turret of vehicles (ignoring barrels).

3) Trace LOS from the gunner.
This one has zero support from RAW but seems to me to be the most fair one.

Any thoughts?

Per the WH FAQ, the Excorcist launcher is considered to be turret mounted, so it has 360 degree LOS (which I would check from the tallest pipe IMHO).

I can't find my WH codex but the BGB covers this fairly well Page 59

if its ...
-Hull mounted it can fire in 45* arc of sight (and 45* vertically)
-Turret can usually rotate 360* (again with a 45* vertical movement)

all of which is traced from the end of the barrel

so 2) is the unfair but correct way to play ...

So its 45° from the highes point? That means that the Exorcist cant shoot at models standing close to it (under the 45° arc)?

So it is possible position it so that it can shoot without being shoot at?

No, its 360° from the highest point... because the WH FAQ considers it to be turret mounted.

Hymirl wrote:No, its 360° from the highest point... because the WH FAQ considers it to be turret mounted.

Sorry, was unclear on that one. I meant 45° vertical movement from the highest point.

... if you stand in its blind spot it can't shoot at you ... same as any tank

Since I forgot, thanks for all the replies!

What I am thinking is that since the point of reference is much higher in the air then is usual for other vehicles its blind spot must be quite big.

What about hiding behind cover so he can shoot but cant be shoot at, is that possible?

Yep. You can place the big beastie behind a hill and fire over it so long as the top of the organ pipes can "see" the target.

Personally, I would argue that each and every pipe was equivalent to a barrel. Thus creating one large circumference representing a single, constructive, gun barrel. The arc of fire therefore extends 45 deg. upward from the topmost pipe and 45 deg. downward from the bottom most pipe. As for the LOS, it is IMHO that the gunner should have LOS on the target. I guess you need to have cooperative gaming partners on this one.

1 more question, if only the tips of the organ are showing than does it count as concealed or does it count as not seen (because I thought weapon tips don't count for shooting a model)

SauerKRAUT220 wrote:1 more question, if only the tips of the organ are showing than does it count as concealed or does it count as not seen (because I thought weapon tips don't count for shooting a model)

Nope, your enemy cant shoot at it. Its a nice little loophole, since you measure LOS to "see" with a vehicle from the gun, but check to see if it can be "seen" to the hull.

arnaroe wrote:Since I forgot, thanks for all the replies!

What I am thinking is that since the point of reference is much higher in the air then is usual for other vehicles its blind spot must be quite big.

What about hiding behind cover so he can shoot but cant be shoot at, is that possible?

What it comes down to is this:

As you've pointed out, the rules tell you to draw line of sight down the barrel of the gun and as far as anyone can tell the barrel(s) of the Exorcist are the pipes that are sticking straight into the air. Even with the 45 degree vertical latitude given by the rulebook this still means technically that there are very few things the Exorcist should be *allowed* to fire at by the RAW.

Obviously this makes no sense, so your opponents have to give you a little leeway and allow you to draw line of sight from somewhere and since it is pretty hard to draw LOS *through* those organ pipes, most people draw LOS from just over the top of the vehicle.

But be aware, that playing this way is through the *grace* of your opponent and as such trying to claim that you can park the vehicle behind a piece of terrain and shoot at targets while no one can shoot back at the exorcist because you can't see any of the vehicle's hull isn't going to fly.

If that happened to me I would then jump back to the RAW and say that your exorcist can only fire at the ceiling or a really close titan.

So I think in the end with the exorcist you have to be a little *generous* with the rules both for firing with it and when shooting at it, and if you play that way you'll probably won't have any complaints.

How can 2. be unfair?
You can target the "turret" when shooting at a vehicle.

Steelmage99 wrote:How can 2. be unfair?
You can target the "turret" when shooting at a vehicle.

Because most people would call the pipes of the organ the gun barrels which are not valid targets for shooting.

Are we talking about the same "gunbarrels" that, by following the rules, cannot actually target anything?

Ah... another good illustration of the utter failings of RAW and a great candidate for a 'How would you play this" poll.

In the interests of fairness, I would play this from the gunners point of view. In my opinion this allows for a reasonable LOS targeting point and heads off any "I can see you but you can't see me" arguments.

Warning: Attempting to apply reasonable compromises may be met by resistance and toolery at tournaments. Your mileage may vary.

yakface wrote:

arnaroe wrote:Since I forgot, thanks for all the replies!

What I am thinking is that since the point of reference is much higher in the air then is usual for other vehicles its blind spot must be quite big.

What about hiding behind cover so he can shoot but cant be shoot at, is that possible?

What it comes down to is this:

As you've pointed out, the rules tell you to draw line of sight down the barrel of the gun and as far as anyone can tell the barrel(s) of the Exorcist are the pipes that are sticking straight into the air. Even with the 45 degree vertical latitude given by the rulebook this still means technically that there are very few things the Exorcist should be *allowed* to fire at by the RAW.

Obviously this makes no sense, so your opponents have to give you a little leeway and allow you to draw line of sight from somewhere and since it is pretty hard to draw LOS *through* those organ pipes, most people draw LOS from just over the top of the vehicle.

But be aware, that playing this way is through the *grace* of your opponent and as such trying to claim that you can park the vehicle behind a piece of terrain and shoot at targets while no one can shoot back at the exorcist because you can't see any of the vehicle's hull isn't going to fly.

If that happened to me I would then jump back to the RAW and say that your exorcist can only fire at the ceiling or a really close titan.

So I think in the end with the exorcist you have to be a little *generous* with the rules both for firing with it and when shooting at it, and if you play that way you'll probably won't have any complaints.

Thank you for this thorough response. It actually answers everything I was wondering about. GJ!

As for the leeway, this post was an preemptive strike. My friend just got the Exorcist and I wanted to understand the rule before we start arguing about them. Since the situation is clear now I guess there wont be any problems.

Thanks you again and everybody else who answered.

yakface wrote:
But be aware, that playing this way is through the *grace* of your opponent and as such trying to claim that you can park the vehicle behind a piece of terrain and shoot at targets while no one can shoot back at the exorcist because you can't see any of the vehicle's hull isn't going to fly.

If that happened to me I would then jump back to the RAW and say that your exorcist can only fire at the ceiling or a really close titan.

So I think in the end with the exorcist you have to be a little *generous* with the rules both for firing with it and when shooting at it, and if you play that way you'll probably won't have any complaints.

Hehe... I guess I should get these exorcists... then bend the pipe barrels forward?

J/k that'd be a D1K move