Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been posting this on several forums to get a range of varied responses, and thought it was about time I joined Dakka Dakka, primarily to post the list, but also to explore the forums.

This is supposed to be a competitive list - I find several codices really struggle at this points range - to include what they want and utilise optimum synergy. Many lists at this points range will not be able to deal with this amount of armour - 6 vehicles - 4 at front AV 11 and 2 at 13 are a tough nut to crack.

Your regular mechanised Sisters army really, the Battle Sisters drive up and flame infantry, using Divine Guidance extensively against MEQ opponents. The Celestians deal with any Soulgrinders, Ironclads, Land Raiders et al. Exorcists target and destroy enemy transports, whilst hiding in cover, and then Dreadnoughts, or MEQ squads. They can advance if needed for target saturation. The empty Immolator shield the Troop carrying rhinos, whilst poppong smoke - providing cover and limiting LOS. It can also be used more aggressively to shepherd the enemy, tank shocking them for optimum flamer template positioning.

HQ/

Canoness w/ Bp, Book, Eviscerator @76

w/ 5x Celestian w/2x melta, Immolator, Smoke, EA @158

Troops/

10x Battle Sister w/Flamer, Heavy Flamer, @205
VSS, Book, Rhino, Smoke, EA

10x Battle Sister w/Flamer, Heavy Flamer, @205
VSS, Book, Rhino, Smoke, EA

Heavy Support/

Exorcist, Dozer Blade, @140

Exorcist, Dozer Blade, @140

Immolator w/ Smoke, Extra Armour @73

Summary/

10 KPs, 6 Vehicles, 5 Faith, 32 Models, 2 Scoring Units

One change worth considering is changing the armament of the empty Immolator to a multi-melta - instead of extra armour/Eviscerator. Something nasty I thought of was (for Veteran's night) is squeezing in a 3rd Exorcist - (Lose Empty Immo, Eviscerator, Swap the Heavy Flamers to Flamers and lose the extra armour everywhere).

Comments and criticism wanted please.

Thank you for any replies, Dark Fire

Feel free to comment please, anybody. Even if the post is simply just 'Solid list...', or 'here's a good tactic to try...' that's fine. Comments and criticism welcome.

Thank you for any replies, Dark Fire

Pretty standard mech sisters list, very solid.

I might think about dropping an exorcist to get a bit more versatility. Just depends.

I don't really know if you really need two exorcists.

Something to think about

HQ
1 Canoness w/ book bolt pistol
3 Celestians w/ bolters
2 Celestians w/ melta guns
1 Immolator

Troops
7 Battle Sisters w/ bolters
1 Battle Sister w/ heavy flamer
1 Battle Sister w/ flamer
1 Veteran Sister Superior w/ book
1 rhno

7 Battle Sisters w/ bolters
1 Battle Sister w/ heavy flamer
1 Battle Sister w/ flamer
1 Veteran Sister Superior w/ book
1 rhno

3 Storm Troopers w/ hellguns
2 Storm Troopers w/ melta guns

3 Storm Troopers w/ hellguns
2 Storm Troopers w/ melta guns

3 Storm Troopers w/ hellguns
2 Storm Troopers w/ melta guns

Heavy Support
1 Immolator
1 Immolator
1 Immolator


That gives you 4 immolators, 8 melta guns, 5 scoring units, but it is high on the kp.

As stated, it is a pretty standard list, so there is not really much to comment on. Like most of the third edition armies, darn near all Sisters players use the list, with only minor variations.

Yeah, I was thinking of setting up my sisters in a similar fashion. But I planned on using 2 squads of Seraphim rather than Celestians

Thank you all for your comments - I recognise that this is pretty similar to amny other list but hey - if you go mechanised, and you want to be fairly competitive, you have to.

@Warmaster - Yeah I've seen many similar Immolator spam list - but I wanted to do something a little less spammy. Anyway, with my tournament Eldar - who screen themselves from the enemy, picking off transports, before prescisely attacking with a Jetbike Seer Council (in 1500/1750 nonetheless but the principle still applies) - and other such lists - Tau Fish of Fury springs to mind, and Trukk rush - by the time you can use meltas it's too late - you need long-ranged anti-tank. I konw the Immoltator Spam list can be very viable, and indeed succeeded greatly at the Las Vegas GT - but with my local opponents - I need those two Exorcists.

@Elric of Grans - But do we have any choice for a viable force? ... It is indeed sad that we are limited to what we can take to make a competitive force (although at least not as badly as Daemonhunters - who are basically limited to Tri-Raider...)

@Sister Alina - I was trying to go for all mounted - seeing how lists function without Seraphim - trying to add my own variation.

At 1000 points, no, there is no real room to tweak in a Sisters army. Canoness, two Battle Sister Squads, then either Exorcists or a light Immolator Spam; your list straddles both. This would be the sum total of competitive choices at 1000 points.

I was just wondering whether it might be an idea to change the list to something like this:

HQ/

Canoness w/ Bp, Book @51

w/ 5x Celestian w/2x melta, Immolator, Smoke @153

Troops/

10x Battle Sister w/Flamer, Flamer, @194
VSS, Book, Rhino, Smoke

10x Battle Sister w/Flamer, Flamer, @194
VSS, Book, Rhino, Smoke

5x Stormtrooper w/ 2x Melta or Plasma @70

Heavy Support/

Exorcist @135

Exorcist @135

Immolator w/ Smoke @68

Loses all extra armour, the Eviscerator, and changed all Heavy Flamers to flamers.

Gains a third scoring choice - 2 more meltas. The Stormtroopers can sit on a home objective with plasma, or jump in the Immolator with melta. Is it worth it? If I just make it double flamer, the Battle Sisters could keep their Heavy Flamer, or get a melta each.

It's sad that "competitive" sisters rely on piddly AV11 to get the job done. Auto cannons end sisters army-wide synergy in turn 1.

Er, that looks like a terrible list. The Canoness is now worthless and lucky glance is more likely see your Rhinos sitting around doing nothing. The Heavy Flamers cost more, but are also an extra kill every time you shoot them (or more, vs higher toughness or Sv4+ infantry). Stormtroopers to leave on an objective is not a bad idea in an of itself, though I would not do it myself (forget the Meltaguns: they are too short-ranged to help a unit you are leaving behind), but five squishy guys off by themselves are just asking to get annihilated. I would not expect this list to do very well.

Yeah, Sisters are basically the same as fourth edition Necron. There is one build that can trouble people, but is ultimately more fragile than it looks, and no other build has a hope of working.

Nah, the initial list is better. And for anyone who thinks that a horde of Rhinos is easy to stop, with autocannons no less, is either overly optimistic, plays in areas with no cover on tables, or their opponent doesn't know how to deploy/use Rhinos correctly in 5e.

My only comment on the initial list would be to look into getting the 2+ save on the Cannoness. 2++ saves are ridiculous.

Twin-linked Autocannons are not bad against Rhinos and have a pretty decent chance of taking out one each turn. I have not faced it, but I would imagine a Guard army with Autocannons up the wazoo would be frightening! Having an Autocannon or two does not equal Game Over by any means, but does make a notable difference.

The 2++ is sickening on the Flying Nun, but less important when she has a retinue of Celestians. Still worth getting if you have the points, but the Act of Faith is less reliable and she has a pile of ablative wounds to abuse.

Thank you for dismissing my idea. I didn't want to lose any of that kit anyway, or gain a KP. It was just a random idea for getting another scoring choice but hey, I don't think it's needed. By the way, naked book Canonesses can work very well Elric - the guy who came 5th on Battle Points in the Las Vegas GT used such a Canoness - with 12 Immolators .

My 1500 Tournament list will probably have 3 BS squads with Heavy Flamer, Melta/Flamer, a naked book Canoness, 3 double melta Celestians, Empty Immolator and Double Exorcist, something like that - and I've seen similar lists doing well in multiple GTs. Something like 9 vehicles, 8 Faith. You can go more spammy by losing the Exoricsts for double flamer dominions, and another Celestian squad, but hey, I'll experiment. Just finding the will to paint that many vehicles though. But on the other hand I might just go the Serpahim route.

Elric of Grans wrote:Twin-linked Autocannons are not bad against Rhinos and have a pretty decent chance of taking out one each turn. I have not faced it, but I would imagine a Guard army with Autocannons up the wazoo would be frightening! Having an Autocannon or two does not equal Game Over by any means, but does make a notable difference.

Some amateur mathhammer: (10x 0.5x 1/3x 0.5)+(10x 0.5x 1/6x 1/6) = 35/36 to Immobilise/Wreck/Glance one rhino with 10 BS 3 Autocannon shots. 1st Bracket is Pen., 2nd is Glance. This is doubled to 20 under smoke - e.g. 1st turn. So reliable 1st turn, I think, check my maths, 10 autocannon (20) to destroy just 1. I wouldn't call that good chances... Exorcists can only be glanced, and immobilise doesn't affect them much anyway.

St John's list was all about the Immolators, not the contents within. If you are min-maxing Immolators, you want to keep the Canonesses cheep. You have two Immolators in your list, which is nowhere near enough, therefore you will need to rely on the Sisters to do Damage. A naked Canoness is literally naked: she does not even have a laspistol. Even adding just a Bolt Pistol, she will not contribute anything. My Canoness is consistently my MVP and the only unit I field that is rightly feared by all my opponents. Giving up such amazing potential seems a right waste.

Twin-Linked Autocannon, BS4 (I think the only twin-linked ones are held by BS4): 2 shots, 1.78 hits, 0.59 penetrates, 0.2 destroyed results. Smoke halves this. Yeah, I was sure it would be better than that.

I don't know what strange planet math hammer comes from. It's truly beyond my comprehension how you guys state the mathamatical probability of guard autocannons ruining your rhinos when game after game I end av11 spam with only 14 autocannons. You seem to be forgetting about your opponents tactics. A good guard player, or a good player from any army really, will be able to exploit and limit your movement by causing traffic jams, focusing not only on destroying your you rhino's but wounding key rhinos that will effect your army's movement for turns to come. av11 is trash, pure trash. If I could take rhino's in my guard army i'd still pay 85 points for a chimera.

On a side note I know a guy who runs max squads of sisters and the only vehicles in his list are exorcists. Brutal, brutal army. Footslogging may seem old-school but sisters are the best footslogger force in 40k imnsho

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who understand how to use statistics, and those who made spit-balls in maths classes. A single twin-linked Autocannon fired at BS4 has a 1/5 chance of destroying a Rhino; 1/10 if it pops smoke. It does not take a genius to realise that increasing the number of Autocannons increases the numbers of dice rolled and, therefore, the chance of taking out a Rhino. 14 Autocannons fired by Guardsmen? 28 shots, 14 hits, 2.33 glances and 9.33 penetrates. 1.95 Rhinos will be immobilised, 3.11 destroyed, each turn. Obviously, we halve this with Smoke on one turn, but you may get two turns of shooting at the Rhinos before they get there. Sure, Autocannon spam chews up light armour, but we already knew this. Your point?

Sisters were mech in second edition, foot slogging for half of third (when they did not have Rhinos), then mech again until now. They are a close-range gun-line army, so have obvious advantages in playing mechanised. I have played both, but found the footslogging force incredibly boring; I also lost every single game I played like that. Autocannon spam hurts mech, but Heavy Bolter spam chews up footslogging Sisters --- I can report that one from experience. I win the vast majority of my games when I play mechanised and have a lot more fun. Is it weak? Sure, but I am not playing Orks or Eldar!

@Elric: Your mathhammer is wrong - one third of hits penetrate= 4.67, not 9.33. This affects your outcome substantially. 2.4 destroyed/wrecked/immobilised results overall, add smoke and that's one rhino a turn. Who has BS 4, twinlinked autocannons? Not many units I believe. If they're spammed they will be BS 3 anyway, as you used in your calculations.

It looks like I may have typed 2/3 rather than 1/3. Nice catch. Still, if they go first, you will lose three Rhinos. If that does not hurt your strategy, I do not know what will. Autocannons are an effective weapon vs AV11, though get a little iffy vs AV12 and are not much good against AV13.

Space Marines twin-linked Autocannons, and everything is BS4. I had that in the back of my mind as I have been trying to help some Smurf players become more competitive against mech lists. A Dreadnought with two pairs of twin-linked Autocannons is a pretty effective choice (more-so than the Lascannon ones they have been bringing). In the end, I decided Missile Launchers in the Tactical Squads were a better choice, as it gives them reasonable anti-light armour, but also a reasonable anti-hoard option.

Elric of Grans wrote:It looks like I may have typed 2/3 rather than 1/3. Nice catch. Still, if they go first, you will lose three Rhinos. If that does not hurt your strategy, I do not know what will. Autocannons are an effective weapon vs AV11, though get a little iffy vs AV12 and are not much good against AV13.

Space Marines twin-linked Autocannons, and everything is BS4. I had that in the back of my mind as I have been trying to help some Smurf players become more competitive against mech lists. A Dreadnought with two pairs of twin-linked Autocannons is a pretty effective choice (more-so than the Lascannon ones they have been bringing). In the end, I decided Missile Launchers in the Tactical Squads were a better choice, as it gives them reasonable anti-light armour, but also a reasonable anti-hoard option.

Well, 2.4 rhinos . Good Catch with the Dreadnought twin-linked BS4 - it's a shame that competitive players won't use that for the reasons you've stated - not effective against a wide range of vehicles - if they want anti-tank they'll be dropping Multi-Melta Dreadnoguhts, maybe even Ironclads.

Autocannon Dradnoughts would be quickly destroyed by Exorcists, whilst remaining fairly impotent to do anything to the Exorcist. To be honest versus a 14 Autocannon list I know what I'd do - even if they went 1st... Have the 2 Exorcists start further forward at the head of a column - and the Empty Immolator guarding one of the flanks - having popped smoke, if it's my turn. It will be unlikely that the opponent will be able to even target the troop carriers, both BS squads and Celestians. Sure the Exorcist can only move 6'' and fire the weapon - but you can either forego the shooting, or move six, next turn, Exorcists move to flanks/go into terrain, whilst rhinos and Immolators zoom 12'', popping smoke if not already needed (by LOS shielding granting cover save), models, if needed to flame/units close enough, disembark 2'', base is 1'' wide, should be in range for a few templates.

Anyway, as to chimeras versus rhinos, chimeras, despite being more shooty, are more expensive, for the moment, and have a worse side armour, I'd rather have 11, 11, 10 than 12, 10, 10, they are also hurt by the fact that their only access point is a rear hatch - not good for the purposes needed - i.e. jumping out full distance and flaming, rhinos work for us, Chirmeras work for Imperial Guard. It's also a little easier to then block the one access point with models, and wrecking the transport then kills the squad...

You'd think that with the giant hatch on top of the chimera would let the dudes escape... but no. 12/10/10 by itself is horrid, but a wall of 3 is pretty sweet.

Elric of Grans wrote:There are two kinds of people in the world: those who understand how to use statistics, and those who made spit-balls in maths classes.

as your math hammer was wrong, which category were you in? math hammer only goes so far is what I was suggesting, and that luckhammer will always be the way the game actually works. sure, mathhammer has it's place, but it's NEVER reliable. I will make spitballs before I allow math hammer decide my list for me, wouldn't you? example: I know that autocannons kill av 10-12 reasonably well, so I take a bunch of those to stop rhino/immolator/chimera/eldar spam. I know meltas kill everything else so I throw in a spattering of that too. Troops killing is all about how many models I can hit with moderate strength weapons so that can be acomplished in many ways. I don't do the cooking by the book, and I don't get cakerolled either.
Your oppinion of math hammer basically breaks down like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMC2XJw5m6Y

I made a typo, whooptiedo. I will not get into a moronic argument on whether or not statistical probability applies to real life or not. If you do not believe in the existence of statistics, good for you. When our new alien overlords say they will kill one in every three people wearing white shoes, I will use statistical probability and go barefoot.

I just realized that I am wearing white shoes. touche!