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The situation:

You have a tactical squad of 10 with a special weapon, heavy weapon, and a sergeant armed differently from the squad.

I attack you with death company and do 27 wounds and 3 rends. Is it legal to put all the rends on one model, and take 3 saves for each of the other models?

Or must these 'auto kills' be spread one per three seperate models?

This could also just as well be wounds from anything else, such as plasma shots mixed in with bolter rounds.

Your thoughts? And page numbers to support?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Che-Vito wrote:Rends are considered part of wounds, and therefore must be attached as such. I believe that although the wounds are scattered amongst the unit if there are more than enough to go around, or by the defender if there are more units than wounds, rending attacks are chosen by the attacke. I will look up the page numbers asap, but that is my thought for the moment.

You are incorrect.

You have a tactical squad of 10 with a special weapon, heavy weapon, and a sergeant armed differently from the squad.

I attack you with death company and do 27 wounds and 3 rends. Is it legal to put all the rends on one model, and take 3 saves for each of the other models?

Yup, perfectly legal. Worth noting, however, that it's not "3 saves for each of the other models" - any identically-equipped models are handled collectively.

Wound allocation 101:
Owner assigns wounds.
We've got 4 "buckets" to dump wounds into: the Sgt, the special weapon (SW), the heavy weapon (HW), and 6 basic marines (SM).
Each model must receive one wound, before any model can be allocated a second wound.
Models in the same "bucket" are handled simultaneously.
We've got 30 wounds to allocates: 3 rending (R), and 27 normal (N).

First pass: (3 R, 27 N to go)
Sgt: N
SW: N
HW: R
SM: Nx6

Second pass: (2 R, 28 N to go)
Sgt: NN
SW: NN
HW: RR
SM: Nx12

Third pass: (1 R, 9 N to go)
Sgt: NNN
SW: NNN
HW: RRR
SM: Nx18

Janthkin wrote:Yup, perfectly legal. Worth noting, however, that it's not "3 saves for each of the other models" - any identically-equipped models are handled collectively.

Wound allocation 101:
Owner assigns wounds.
We've got 4 "buckets" to dump wounds into: the Sgt, the special weapon (SW), the heavy weapon (HW), and 6 basic marines (SM).
Each model must receive one wound, before any model can be allocated a second wound.
Models in the same "bucket" are handled simultaneously.
We've got 30 wounds to allocates: 3 rending (R), and 27 normal (N).

First pass: (3 R, 27 N to go)
Sgt: N
SW: N
HW: R
SM: Nx6

Second pass: (2 R, 28 N to go)
Sgt: NN
SW: NN
HW: RR
SM: Nx12

Third pass: (1 R, 9 N to go)
Sgt: NNN
SW: NNN
HW: RRR
SM: Nx18

All 100% correct there. It's one of the advantages of being a complex unit, to outweigh the disadvantage of having to roll each guy separately, so being unable to just roll 6 dice and say "oh the ones I rolled are the guys without the special weapons"

A Most excellent summery there Janthkin! You win 10 Internets! It would have been 20 but you forgot to give us page references so we could double check you then insult you if you were wrong! Shame on you!

So by that example up top you wouldn't be able to throw 3 rendings on 1 normal marine. it would have to be 1 of the 3 special buckets?

Golga wrote:So by that example up top you wouldn't be able to throw 3 rendings on 1 normal marine. it would have to be 1 of the 3 special buckets?

Correct. If you threw them into the "normal marine bucket", you'd lose 3 marines, plus be rolling for all the other wounds.

That is correct. This is intended to balance out Complex units a bit. While you are losing less models automatically, it come at the cost of it being a more valuable model.

So if I threw the 3 rendings on one standard marine (using allocation rules) And the rest of the wounds around. because I roll all of the regular marines at the same time. regardless if I pass all the normal saves I will still lose 3 marines as opposed to just the one mairne with the 3 rending attacks?

That is again correct. You cannot assign wounds to individual models in a group of identically grouped models.

If you put the 3 rending wounds with the regular marines, and pass all the normal saves, you would suffer 3 wounds in that group, and remove 3 models from that group.

If you put it in the "Sargent" group, you would then suffer 3 wounds again, and remove 3 models from the Sargent Group of models. Since there is only one in that group, you only lose one.

Excellent. This is what I thought, but I got slightly hosed in a RTT yesterday. It was an argument I wasn't 100% sure on, so I let it go.