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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Just wanted to see what the reaction to this is. To me, it sounds like a number-crunching 40k list-builder dismissing a superior game system because his powergaming style doesn't work as well. But I'm biased.


As requested by many, my take on Fantasy.

A lot of people seem to think that Fantasy is a game of chess and 40K is the simple game of checkers.

Well, I'm here to tell you just how wrong you really are in that assumption.

Fantasy is the game of checkers, and 40K is the game of chess.

Why do I think so?

For several reasons, I'm going to do a comparison of the game systems and illustrate why I think this way.

Movement: In 40K, movement is normalized AND unenforced.

What that means is, everyone moves in set patterns--there are no 'elves move 1" extra' nonsense anymore. Everyone has the same move if they are a specific unit type.

Unenforced means you can move anywhere you want to, in any direction. Fantasy doesn't do that, and that's the biggest issue making Fantasy a game of checkers. If you really think you are that bright and can 'see' how well the game goes, well...hate to break it to you, but you aren't as bright as you think you are. Do it in 40K. Can you visualize where all the units will be in 3 turns? In Fantasy, it's very easy to do because the game is so simple. The checkerboard is laid out for you after deployment. Either you are fast or you are slow. Your moves are dictated at deployment. Think about it. When you are all done setting up, are you lined up across the board from your opponent, your army facing off against his in a 36-44" spread in the middle of the table? Now think about 40K. What happens if you do that in 40K against a good opponent? You lose. In fantasy, you don't lose when you spread your entire army out and run right at the other guy. In fact, if you don't do that...people will call your army 'beardy' or 'cheesy'. Funny how that works, eh? If you decide not to play checkers but want to play chess, no one will want to play you. Very funny indeed.

Shooting: In 40K, shooting is a part of every army AND unrestricted.

What's this mean? In 40k, with limited exceptions (like if you are immobilized) you can fire in any direction with any unit. In Fantasy, you can't do this. That's not a benefit "because the game system makes you think", frankly the game has removed thinking. You can only fire out your front 45 degree arc. You can't fire if you move. Etc, etc. Are the gunners in Fantasy slowed? They can't turn and fire? Are you slowed too? Do you find the act of turning and firing so incredibly taxing that you just cannot do it, and need to take a breather after making not just a turn of 90 degrees but even a turn of 20 degrees so Bob, Jim, and Phil down the other end can 'see' and fire? Hey, I get it. It's a representation, it's a game. Pretend for a moment how Fantasy would be if you could move and fire (albiet with a penalty) instead of having all these restrictions on it and modifiers for those few units that can actually move and fire. Yes, you can move small amounts and fire--but 40K does it better, by allowing you to take a move and fire. Fantasy has a similar concept, you can march (or Run, in 40K) and you cannot shoot...but you cannot do it effectively in Fantasy because of the 'only see out the front arc' nonsense. Back that bad rule up with the can't fire in ranks unless I'm on a hill nonsense and all of a sudden you have a shooting element in the game that is very very static. In short, it's checkers.

Magic aka Psychic Powers: While not in the same place as it used to be in 40K 2nd edition (Dark Millenium) where it was overpowered, in 40K it's not nearly as all-or-nothing as it is in Fantasy but on average it's much more balanced. Sadly, in Fantasy magic is either too powerful or too weak. Teclis? A bit too powerful. For you 40K players, imagine being able to fire out 4 lashes in a turn and the enemies psychic hood is worthless. How fun would that be?? Now imagine the other spectrum, where you have the ability to cast a S4 AP - attack but only if you roll 8 or less on 3D6 every turn and if you fail...you spent all those points for nothing. Sounds even more fun, yes? It's also very limiting for game balance. Some armies have the former, but most have the latter. How can it be a game of chess when most of the pieces necessary for a chess game aren't there for BOTH players? I have a pair of kinged checkers, you have 1 checker. Hey, fun AND balanced? Not even close.

Assault: In 40K, units are not huge wastes of your money like they are in Fantasy and actually contribute to assaults in a real way and not an illusion of contribution.

All you 40K players need to know is +5. That's the standard combat resolution you need to beat against a ranked up unit. What I think of as the super checker piece. It starts 'kinged', ok?

Now imagine the normal frontage of any given unit, it's 5 models on average. Those 5 models on average have 6 attacks (1 per model, +1 for the single champion). Well hey, that's quite a dynamic and interesting system. I guess if I charge you and get to go first, if I roll enough 4+'s to hit and to wound, and you fail enough 4+'s...maybe I'll get a +1 pip in my favor. How exciting, you use your Generals LD and you have a BSB nearby...forcing you to roll a 8 or 9 with a re-roll if you fail. Hey let's get flank charges (hopping the checker pieces) and see if we can dramatically change the numbers by removing your ranks and giving me a flank charge bonus--that's a swing of 4 right there, which makes it even more likely you'll break and flee.

Imagine every unit in the game of Fantasy that is a ranked unit, is full of Imperial Guard conscripts. They can overwhelm you with numbers, but that's all they have going for them. Sadly, they can only move straight forward and can only charge forward. Without flank charges or super characters in the unit to beat the odds...you can throw checkers at each other all day, but if you've played checkers lately you should know how dreadfully boring that actually is.

So, all units fight in CC with the average dice rolls being equal to Fantasy (3+ to 5+ to hit, 3+ to 5+ to wound) yet the fights in 40K are not only deadlier they are easier (quicker) to resolve.

I don't know about you, but if all I can do is move forward...shoot forward...and I run like a girl from big scary things...how exciting is this game system?

Not very. Don't think so? War of the Rings. Go play that and see. Hey, been a fun 1 second game. You lose.

No, I don't recommend you buy the figs or the game...just saying, it's quite faster than Fantasy and far less a game of power checkers. lol

Went digging through my old posts, and guess what? I've been hating on mat ward since before it was cool

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/244212.page 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







There's another thread on this post.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/234358.page

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
 
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