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I recently located my old half built, unpainted Tau, and decided to take it back up. Before even drawing up a definitive list, I want to decide whether to go with a Shadowsun based Cadre, or a Farsight Cadre.
any guidance regarding thier respective pros and cons would be greatly appreciated.
I plan on fuly magnetizing them so that im not committed to weapons if they turn out to be bad in practice
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Since I only have the first or second gen codex, i can only put up a vague list because i dont know the point changes. (definitly plan on buying codex asap)
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Note that i tend towards a smaller but maxed out force, than a large force of standard issue dudes. Quality over quantity
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Any input is invited, most is appreciated!

If I went with Shadowsun, The pain scheme would be mainly white with a very clean intended look. Any FW suits that arent the Shas'o are "counts as"
the list would look something like as follows:
(all teams [even kroot] have an upgraded team leader)

HQ:
1x1 Shadowsun + Guard
1x1 XV81* Shas'o Crisis + XV89* Guard

Elite:
2x3 XV81* Crisis team + Shas'vre :: bonded
1†x6 XV15 Stealth team + Markerlight
1†x6 XV25 Stealth Team + Fusion Blaster

Troops:
2x12 Fire Warrior teams :: Bonded
1x12 Fire Warrior Team + Devilfish :: bonded
1x15 Kroot carnivore squad
1x12 Kroot Carnivore squad + hounds

Fast Attack:
1x8 Pathfinders + 3x Railrifles :: Bonded
3x2 Pihranna
1x8 Kroot Hounds

Heavy Support:
2x3 Sniper drones
2x3 XV88-2* Broadside team + 1 TL Plasma rifles (1 per team)
2x1 Ion/railhead tanks

*if funds allow
†These teams are interhcangeable and will rarely be used simutaneously

If i went with Farsight the paint scheme would be very red with black accents, or vice versa. Also heavy wheathering.
All units : are bonded - have Ork fighter - have an upgraded rank team leader

HQ:

1x1 Farsight + Guard
1x1 Shas'o + Guard

Elite:

1x3 XV8 Crisis Team
1x3 XV15 Stealth Team

Troops:

2x12 Fire warrior team + 2x carbines each
1x12 fire Warrior Team + 6x Carbnes + Photon/EMP + DevilFish

Fast Attack:

1x5 Pathfinders + Photon/EMP + Shield Drone(HW)

Heavy support:

1x3 XV88 Broadside team + 2x TL Plasma Rifles
1x1 Rail/Ionhead Gunship

There is not a lot going for Shadowsun particularly as she does not count as your commander so you have to buy a Crisis commander as well, and stealth got slightly nerfed in 5e.

Farsight imposes some restrictions and the bonuses to Melee are not really worth the points.

Torgoch made an interesting Farsight list based on the idea of building a mega-unit containing Farsight and the max possible number of suits and drones. While it's a large unit it is resistant to damage, can put out a lot of close and medium range firepower and has surprising melee ability.

Torgoch took that list and placed in two UK GTs, so it must be good for something (the player counts too, of course!)

If you are going to do Farsight you should max out your Gundam Wing.

So something like 1 Firewarrior, prob with dfish, 1 kroot, and and as many mechanized-enemy-pant-soiling units as point allow? And Shadowsun doesnt count as a commander??

i went into a GW and they said "whats the point of getting farsight when you improve close combat which is the exact opposite a FW wants". I really liked the look of farsight but i realised that being able to use every model is probs better. Up to you tho

Which is precicly why im undecided, in the end ll prbable go shadowsun, but he still tempts me

I would say Shadowsun unless you really really really love suits. (Which isn't exactly a hard thing to do as they are one of the coolest units in 40k.) If you take Farsight you can't use any alien allies though you do get bonded for free (and that is worth a lot) though I can't remember if they kept orkfighter in the newest edtion. (I don'think they did but you would have to check.) Also, Farsight gives real restrictions to the kind of Anti tank you can take. Instead of longrange railguns your going to be relying on close up suicide suits to really knock out those pesky tanks. (Two shield Drone, Twinlinked Fusion Blaster or Fusion Blaster and Missile Pod work well in this regard.) Really, a Farsight force has a harder time scoring as they need to drop more points into their Crisis suits to make the list viable than a regular commander.

Blueshift 0 wrote:i went into a GW and they said "whats the point of getting farsight when you improve close combat which is the exact opposite a FW wants". I really liked the look of farsight but i realised that being able to use every model is probs better. Up to you tho

Because Farsight is the only "real" Tau special character left now that Aun'shi is gone. He's the coolest character with the best rules, the best background, and even his army paint scheme is awesome.

Honestly I'm not surprised that the idiots at GW said "Durr, why would you play Farsight, durr hurr hurr Tau /= close combat stoopid!" I guess the fact that Farsight and Farsight alone fights with a sword means the entire army has to charge into combat without firing a shot every game.

Maj. Tom wrote:So something like 1 Firewarrior, prob with dfish, 1 kroot, and and as many mechanized-enemy-pant-soiling units as point allow? And Shadowsun doesnt count as a commander??

The army must be commanded by a crisis suited commander. Shadowsun doesn't count.

Blueshift 0 wrote:i went into a GW and they said "whats the point of getting farsight when you improve close combat which is the exact opposite a FW wants". I really liked the look of farsight but i realised that being able to use every model is probs better. Up to you tho

The point of Farsight is that it allows you to build a list with a large number of crisis suits, who are a lot less worse in H2H than people usually think. You can build Farsight plus his guard to a unit of seven suits (I think) which gives you 7 plasma rifles, 7 missile pods and a bunch of drones. The unit has a large footprint on the table but it puts out hellish firepower and is strong enough in H2H to mug most things which survive the initial burst of shooting.

Ratbarf wrote:I would say Shadowsun unless you really really really love suits. (Which isn't exactly a hard thing to do as they are one of the coolest units in 40k.) If you take Farsight you can't use any alien allies though you do get bonded for free (and that is worth a lot) though I can't remember if they kept orkfighter in the newest edtion. (I don'think they did but you would have to check.) Also, Farsight gives real restrictions to the kind of Anti tank you can take. Instead of longrange railguns your going to be relying on close up suicide suits to really knock out those pesky tanks. (Two shield Drone, Twinlinked Fusion Blaster or Fusion Blaster and Missile Pod work well in this regard.) Really, a Farsight force has a harder time scoring as they need to drop more points into their Crisis suits to make the list viable than a regular commander.

1. Everyone loves suits
2. You can have only one of each of Broadsides, stealth suits, and Hammerhead
3. Suits are durable if you invest alot in each one

Kilkrazy wrote:

Maj. Tom wrote:So something like 1 Firewarrior, prob with dfish, 1 kroot, and and as many mechanized-enemy-pant-soiling units as point allow? And Shadowsun doesnt count as a commander??

The army must be commanded by a crisis suited commander. Shadowsun doesn't count.

''Mechanized-enemy-pant-soiling units = Crisis suits

Checked it last night, they did take away Ork fighter (they now have preffered enemy: Orks) and Farsight no longer counts as a Monstrous creature in Combat. (though he ignores armour saves and hits vehicles in the same way) Though you now get bonding knifes for free!

The Farsight Bodyguard is 1-7 so thats a unit of 8 (including Farsight) not sure if it takes up a FOC selection though.

Pretty much, to make a unit of Crisis suits as overpowered as possible you try to overfill them with sheild drones and try and make all of the suits have slightly different equipment so you have to take 6 wounds before they even touch the suits (the drones) and then another 3 before you start removing suits. Thats darn nice on models as they all can have 4+ invs on top of a 3+ save! Almost as durable as a unit of Nobs of the same size. And they should do more damage.

Ratbarf wrote:Checked it last night, they did take away Ork fighter (they now have preffered enemy: Orks) and Farsight no longer counts as a Monstrous creature in Combat. (though he ignores armour saves and hits vehicles in the same way) Though you now get bonding knifes for free!

The Farsight Bodyguard is 1-7 so thats a unit of 8 (including Farsight) not sure if it takes up a FOC selection though.

Pretty much, to make a unit of Crisis suits as overpowered as possible you try to overfill them with sheild drones and try and make all of the suits have slightly different equipment so you have to take 6 wounds before they even touch the suits (the drones) and then another 3 before you start removing suits. Thats darn nice on models as they all can have 4+ invs on top of a 3+ save! Almost as durable as a unit of Nobs of the same size. And they should do more damage.

What is "preffered enemy"? amd by not monsterouys ccreature you mean he doesnt incur moral checks?

P.S. Have been reading new codex, disregard the list above, I am still deciding b/w Shadowsun and Farsight but the army layout is outdated.(was working off of a first gen codex and online sources)

Seeings as the topic has digressed from the original one, i will now start a new one that is only farsight VS shadowsun

Kilkrazy wrote:

Maj. Tom wrote:So something like 1 Firewarrior, prob with dfish, 1 kroot, and and as many mechanized-enemy-pant-soiling units as point allow? And Shadowsun doesnt count as a commander??

The army must be commanded by a crisis suited commander. Shadowsun doesn't count.

Yes she does.

Shadowsun doesn't count as the obligatory Crisis suit commander because she doesn't have a Crisis suit.

This was confirmed by GW's FAQ for the 4e Tau Codex.

Farsight does not say anything about counting as the Commander in the codex, but the most recent FAQ says he counts. It makes no mention of Shadowsun counting or not counting in the FAQ, but then it's pretty straight forward in the codex;

Special Character: Commander Shadowsun is a special character. She may be used in Tau armies of at least 1,500 points as an HQ choice. You may not select any additional items from the Armoury. She counts as the 1+ Fire caste Commander the army must take. Note that if you choose Commander Shadowsun, no other Tau model may select the same equipment from the Special Issue Wargear list of the Tau Armoury.

thx for the input but the discussion has moved o the "O'shovah V. O'shaserra" thread.

and your commander HAS to be a suit? what about ethereals?

You HAVE to have a Commander. A Shad'el, Shas'o, Shadowsun, or Farsight. They are listed as 1+ in the codex. You could then take an Ethereal for your second HQ choice, or a second Commander if you want.

Also note that Fire Warrior are 1+ as well, so you HAVE to have at least one squad of them in your army.

So wait a minute, the CODEX says she counts, but the FAQ says she doesn't?

The FAQ doesn't say anything about if she does or does not, the same way it doesn't say Pulse Rifles are str5.

No it doesn't, unless I missed it...I wonder what FAQ Killkrazy was reading then.

The rather incomplete one that was put out a few months after the release of the 4e codex. I haven't bothered looking for an update since then. Checking now, I see there has been a 5e FAQ release.

I don't remember the codex mention that Shadowsun can be the Crisis commander, however I can't check my copy now as it's in storage.