'Nids Dex??

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**Fexor**

I didn't see anyone ask this, so here it is.

Is there any word of an updated Tyranids Codex coming out within the distant future? Or are we doomed to keeping our old one for awhile?

**DeathGod**

Fexor wrote:I didn't see anyone ask this, so here it is.

Is there any word of an updated Tyranids Codex coming out within the distant future? Or are we doomed to keeping our old one for awhile?

The VERY rough timeline we have is mid-2010.

very rough.

like old, dried up, pushing 60 but is still working the streets rough

in short, who knows, really, but that's the current estimate

**Vertrucio**

That's weird, I thought I saw the Tyranids codex with the 5th edition style Codex logo.

How do you tell which codex is up to date?

**Cheese Elemental**

They have the 'Warhammer 40,000 codex' logo in the bottom left-hand corner.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

From the rumours I have heard, the absolute earliest it is possibly going to come out is late (Really Late) this year to early next year, but is rumoured to come out early to mid 2010.

In it, I expect we will see:
Several New, Shiny units (Trygon?)
Lictors that are good for more than granting FE, chargeing tanks and Tau and helping with reserves, or at least are better than they are now.
Useful hormogaunts.
Carnifex becomeing Heavy support only
VC getting a boost.
Useful Biovores
Down-powered Tyrant.

In models:
Several new plastic kits (Possibly Trygon, Hive Tyrant and Gargoyles)
Updates to several old kits (Warriors?)

Fate Uncertain:
Genestealers fate is uncertain (Might Get Nerfed or boosted).
The War on Flexibility might hit Biomorphs.
SC's may return.

**Lorek**

What's an SC?

**Nofasse 'Eadhunta**

I recently heard a couple of things about the new Nids.

- They're getting a template weapon.
- Carnifex will have lowered Strength.

That's about it from me.

**grizgrin**

I would imagine SC=Special Character, a la Old One Eye and Red Terror.

Call yourself a MOD. Hmmmph.

**ED209**

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:I recently heard a couple of things about the new Nids.

- They're getting a template weapon.
- Carnifex will have lowered Strength.

That's about it from me.

I guess ur info came with this article below ,some one posted in our chinese forum ,but it's totally fake ,囧

"It was first posted on Tau Online, but it seems that a nid playtest list was leaked (either that or the list was faked-> its on Scribd if anyone is curious). I went and found it and here's the changes it shows:

Synapse: Fearless, ld 10, 12" range, immunity to instinctual behavior, destroyer hits only deal d3 wounds

Instinctual Behaviour: Can't move if you can't see an enemy. If you can see an enemy, you must move towards it at full speed, shoot during your shooting phase (so no running), and assault it.

Independant: Immune to Instinctual Behaviour

Weapons: 2 weapons of the same type count as a single twin linked weapon. Already tl'd weapons are unaffected by this.

Barbed Strangler: max s7, otherwise the same.

Devourer: same except there's no more re-roll wounds, max s5

Fleshborer: 18" range, ap4, no more re-rolls, still s+1, max s6

Deathspitter: same

Pyro acid thrower: range: template, strength: user, ap4

spike rifle: 24" range, strength as user, ap5, assault 1

Spinefist: same as now except it counts as 2 pistols and so gives +1 attack.

Venom Cannon: Same as now but gives -1 one the chart instead of only glancing.

Spore Mine Launcher: Same as now

Bone Sword: Re-roll all failed hits, even against vehicle with no WS

Crushing claws: +1 on the vehicle damage chart (cumulitive), deals an addition +d6 wounds to multi wound creatures in CC (not cumulitive).

Lash Whip: Reduces attacks by 1 to a min of 1 for each lash whip on the nid

RC and Scy-tals are the same as before.

Biomorphs:

Acid maw: poison in CC

Toxin Sacs: poison in CC and shooting (but will probably be changed to just shooting)

Adrenal Glands: Furious Charge

Enhanced Senses: Gains Acute Senses

Extended Carapace: You make take saves against weapons with AP up to +2 of your armour save (so a fex with a 3+ can take saves against AP 3 and AP2 but not AP1)

Feeder Tendrils: Preferred Enemy

Fleshhooks: Assault Grenades

Leaping: Count as a beast, but can climb buildings as infantry

Regeneration: FNP

Spinebanks: Spinefists without the +1 attack

Toxic Miasma: Defensive Grenades

Winged: same

Pyschic Powers:

Catalyst: target unit gains the counter attack rule, 18" range

Warp Blast: same as low powered version but you now need a psychic test

Mind Lance: s9, ap2, lance, 18" range

Psychic Scream: All enemy units within 12" take a pinning test.

Army List:
HQ:
Tyrant: +1 strength, 3+ save, BS4, otherwise the same. Comes with scy-tals free, wings replace one set of scy-tals. Can always take Tyrant Guard (who are slightly more expensive), can take all the weapons he can now (at different prices), Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs (poison 3+), AG, Bio-plasma, ES, EC, FH, Toxic Miasma

Tyrant Guard: Same as now, entire brood may take flesh hooks for XXpts

Broodlord: Same as now but with WS6, I6, 4 attacks before scy-tals, and fleet. Must take stealer retinue and has no options on his own (they're all taken as a brood with the stealer bodyguard). Stealers can take scy tals, the brood can take Acidmaw/toxin sacs(poison 4+), EC, FH, FT. Still has infiltrate.

Troops:
Gaunts: more expensive, but start with a flesh borer and can exchange for a spike rifle, devourer, or spinefists for free. Can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(poison 4+), AG, EC, FH

Hormagaunts: Same price as gaunts. Can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, EC, FH

Rippers: Have BS2, otherwise the stats and price are the same. They can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs (4+), AG, EC, FH, Spine Banks. They now have stealth and conglomerate instead of small, and conglomerate makes rippers immune to instant death but templates and blasts deal 3 wounds per base hit. They can also take leaping and winged and they now come with rending standard. They still can't take objectives.

Elites:
Genestealers: Same price as now, but with +1 attack, WS5, and I5. They also come with infiltrate standard and are independant. They can take Scy-tals, Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), EC, FH, FT. Also BS3 for some reason and LD8.

Lictors: 20 pts less, +1 wound, 3 attacks before scy-tals, WS5, I5, BS3, comes with FT and FH, scy tals, and RC. Has scout, infiltrate, and deepstrike (doesn't take wounds DSing into terrain), stealth, and hit and run. Its independant with LD8 and its in broods of 1-3.

Warriors: BS3, S5, T5, and a fair bit more expensive. They come with 2x scy tals and can purchase any weapon they can now, withe there being 3 restricted heavy weapons: BS, VC, and the flamer. They can take leaping, replace a bio-weapon with wings, and for bio-morphs they can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, Bio-plas, ES, EC, FH.

Gargs: Cheaper, but htey lose bio-plasma. They can exchange their fleshborer for devourers or spinefists free, they can re-roll difficult terrain tests, and they can take Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, Bio-plas, and FH. They're also LD 7 with a 5+ save.

Ravs: Stats are the same but they have LD8 and only 2 attacks, but they come with 3x scy-tals. They can exchange scy-tals for RC, Fleshborere, Dev, Spinefist, Deathspitter. They can take AM/TS(4+), AG, ES, EC, FH and can assault the turn they deepstrike as if they were infantry. Cheaper than now with 3x scy tals, same price if they have RC.

Spore mines: Same as now (except maybe in points), but they don't count for KP, you don't have to kill them to wipe out the nids, but they can still contest objectives.

Biovores: Stats are as now, they're cheaper in points (but not enough IMHO), and they come with rending claws. They have the independant rule. Brood: 1-3.

Zoanthropes: Just slightly more expensive than now, but they come with Synapse, Warp Blast, and have a 5+ inv save instead of a 6+. They lose toxic miasma and they only have WS2. They can take psychic powers Catalyst, Psychic Scream, Mind Lance. Brood: 1-3.

Carnifex: BS3, S8, ld 7, I2, 3+ save. Its fearless and has the tank hunter rule. Its more expensive than now (XXXpts), but it comes with 2x scy tals and can exchange them for crushing claws for free. It can also take tl'd devs, tl'd deathspitter, VC, BS, and lash whips. For biomorphs it can take AM/TS(2+), AG, Bio-plas, ES, EC, FH, Regeneration, Spine Banks, Toxic Miasma.

My take is that it seems stronger than our current book in some ways, but some units still don't seem worth it. Biovores still don't seem good enough compared to zoans and fexes, lictors are better but I'm not sure if its enough, the 2x dev flyrant is gone, elite fexes are gone, CCfex still suck (but a shooty fex is awesome, and a CCfex can tear apart any MC now), warriors and ravs still seem overpriced, and the saves are all really low. Any stats I didn't mention are the same as in the codex now with the base statline, so the saves are all really bad and for the most part it feels gutted. It definately seems usable (and even good) but it seems that nids will still be a shootier army. Warriors are only good at shooting once again (still too expensive for CC and now can't even get WS 5 or I5) and fexes in CC are now stuck with really low WS and still not enough attacks. On the other hand, VCs are cheap enough that tl'd VC fexes will likely become the norm, possible with EC so they get a save against lascannons.

Anyways, these seem to be either fake or a playtest list (likely an early one). Whenever the real nid book comes out it'll probably be much different. Remember the current rulebook and the playtest version? Though if this were to come out, it'd still probably be very playable-> just not nearly the same as the current list. I very much doubt 90% of this stuff would show up in a new nid book (EC would probably get changed-> that kind seems rather annoying) and a lot of the fex bio-morphs aren't represented. If it is an early playlist then thats good-> while a lot of the stuff I don't like, there is quite a few things I can agree with (cheap horms, T5 warriors, beefier lictors) and there's a couple of things there that have been brought up as things we'd like to see in the next dex(there's a couple of changes in that playlist that have been talked about at Warp Shadow). If its an early playlist then odds are GW is looking at what the players would like to see in the next book. On the other hand, there's always a good chance its a hoax-> it seems to be following more of the super simplistic style that CSM had than the more complex types that the new marine book and rumored IG book seem to have."

**Plastic People**

ED209 wrote:

I guess ur info came with this article below ,some one posted in our chinese forum ,but it's totally fake ,囧

It was first posted on Tau Online, but it seems that a nid playtest list was leaked (either that or the list was faked-> its on Scribd if anyone is curious). I went and found it and here's the changes it shows:

Synapse: Fearless, ld 10, 12" range, immunity to instinctual behavior, destroyer hits only deal d3 wounds

Instinctual Behaviour: Can't move if you can't see an enemy. If you can see an enemy, you must move towards it at full speed, shoot during your shooting phase (so no running), and assault it.

Independant: Immune to Instinctual Behaviour

Weapons: 2 weapons of the same type count as a single twin linked weapon. Already tl'd weapons are unaffected by this.

Barbed Strangler: max s7, otherwise the same.

Devourer: same except there's no more re-roll wounds, max s5

Fleshborer: 18" range, ap4, no more re-rolls, still s+1, max s6

Deathspitter: same

Pyro acid thrower: range: template, strength: user, ap4

spike rifle: 24" range, strength as user, ap5, assault 1

Spinefist: same as now except it counts as 2 pistols and so gives +1 attack.

Venom Cannon: Same as now but gives -1 one the chart instead of only glancing.

Spore Mine Launcher: Same as now

Bone Sword: Re-roll all failed hits, even against vehicle with no WS

Crushing claws: +1 on the vehicle damage chart (cumulitive), deals an addition +d6 wounds to multi wound creatures in CC (not cumulitive).

Lash Whip: Reduces attacks by 1 to a min of 1 for each lash whip on the nid

RC and Scy-tals are the same as before.

Biomorphs:

Acid maw: poison in CC

Toxin Sacs: poison in CC and shooting (but will probably be changed to just shooting)

Adrenal Glands: Furious Charge

Enhanced Senses: Gains Acute Senses

Extended Carapace: You make take saves against weapons with AP up to +2 of your armour save (so a fex with a 3+ can take saves against AP 3 and AP2 but not AP1)

Feeder Tendrils: Preferred Enemy

Fleshhooks: Assault Grenades

Leaping: Count as a beast, but can climb buildings as infantry

Regeneration: FNP

Spinebanks: Spinefists without the +1 attack

Toxic Miasma: Defensive Grenades

Winged: same

Pyschic Powers:

Catalyst: target unit gains the counter attack rule, 18" range

Warp Blast: same as low powered version but you now need a psychic test

Mind Lance: s9, ap2, lance, 18" range

Psychic Scream: All enemy units within 12" take a pinning test.

Army List:
HQ:
Tyrant: +1 strength, 3+ save, BS4, otherwise the same. Comes with scy-tals free, wings replace one set of scy-tals. Can always take Tyrant Guard (who are slightly more expensive), can take all the weapons he can now (at different prices), Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs (poison 3+), AG, Bio-plasma, ES, EC, FH, Toxic Miasma

Tyrant Guard: Same as now, entire brood may take flesh hooks for XXpts

Broodlord: Same as now but with WS6, I6, 4 attacks before scy-tals, and fleet. Must take stealer retinue and has no options on his own (they're all taken as a brood with the stealer bodyguard). Stealers can take scy tals, the brood can take Acidmaw/toxin sacs(poison 4+), EC, FH, FT. Still has infiltrate.

Troops:
Gaunts: more expensive, but start with a flesh borer and can exchange for a spike rifle, devourer, or spinefists for free. Can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(poison 4+), AG, EC, FH

Hormagaunts: Same price as gaunts. Can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, EC, FH

Rippers: Have BS2, otherwise the stats and price are the same. They can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs (4+), AG, EC, FH, Spine Banks. They now have stealth and conglomerate instead of small, and conglomerate makes rippers immune to instant death but templates and blasts deal 3 wounds per base hit. They can also take leaping and winged and they now come with rending standard. They still can't take objectives.

Elites:
Genestealers: Same price as now, but with +1 attack, WS5, and I5. They also come with infiltrate standard and are independant. They can take Scy-tals, Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), EC, FH, FT. Also BS3 for some reason and LD8.

Lictors: 20 pts less, +1 wound, 3 attacks before scy-tals, WS5, I5, BS3, comes with FT and FH, scy tals, and RC. Has scout, infiltrate, and deepstrike (doesn't take wounds DSing into terrain), stealth, and hit and run. Its independant with LD8 and its in broods of 1-3.

Warriors: BS3, S5, T5, and a fair bit more expensive. They come with 2x scy tals and can purchase any weapon they can now, withe there being 3 restricted heavy weapons: BS, VC, and the flamer. They can take leaping, replace a bio-weapon with wings, and for bio-morphs they can take Acid Maw/Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, Bio-plas, ES, EC, FH.

Gargs: Cheaper, but htey lose bio-plasma. They can exchange their fleshborer for devourers or spinefists free, they can re-roll difficult terrain tests, and they can take Toxin Sacs(4+), AG, Bio-plas, and FH. They're also LD 7 with a 5+ save.

Ravs: Stats are the same but they have LD8 and only 2 attacks, but they come with 3x scy-tals. They can exchange scy-tals for RC, Fleshborere, Dev, Spinefist, Deathspitter. They can take AM/TS(4+), AG, ES, EC, FH and can assault the turn they deepstrike as if they were infantry. Cheaper than now with 3x scy tals, same price if they have RC.

Spore mines: Same as now (except maybe in points), but they don't count for KP, you don't have to kill them to wipe out the nids, but they can still contest objectives.

Biovores: Stats are as now, they're cheaper in points (but not enough IMHO), and they come with rending claws. They have the independant rule. Brood: 1-3.

Zoanthropes: Just slightly more expensive than now, but they come with Synapse, Warp Blast, and have a 5+ inv save instead of a 6+. They lose toxic miasma and they only have WS2. They can take psychic powers Catalyst, Psychic Scream, Mind Lance. Brood: 1-3.

Carnifex: BS3, S8, ld 7, I2, 3+ save. Its fearless and has the tank hunter rule. Its more expensive than now (XXXpts), but it comes with 2x scy tals and can exchange them for crushing claws for free. It can also take tl'd devs, tl'd deathspitter, VC, BS, and lash whips. For biomorphs it can take AM/TS(2+), AG, Bio-plas, ES, EC, FH, Regeneration, Spine Banks, Toxic Miasma.

My take is that it seems stronger than our current book in some ways, but some units still don't seem worth it. Biovores still don't seem good enough compared to zoans and fexes, lictors are better but I'm not sure if its enough, the 2x dev flyrant is gone, elite fexes are gone, CCfex still suck (but a shooty fex is awesome, and a CCfex can tear apart any MC now), warriors and ravs still seem overpriced, and the saves are all really low. Any stats I didn't mention are the same as in the codex now with the base statline, so the saves are all really bad and for the most part it feels gutted. It definately seems usable (and even good) but it seems that nids will still be a shootier army. Warriors are only good at shooting once again (still too expensive for CC and now can't even get WS 5 or I5) and fexes in CC are now stuck with really low WS and still not enough attacks. On the other hand, VCs are cheap enough that tl'd VC fexes will likely become the norm, possible with EC so they get a save against lascannons.

Anyways, these seem to be either fake or a playtest list (likely an early one). Whenever the real nid book comes out it'll probably be much different. Remember the current rulebook and the playtest version? Though if this were to come out, it'd still probably be very playable-> just not nearly the same as the current list. I very much doubt 90% of this stuff would show up in a new nid book (EC would probably get changed-> that kind seems rather annoying) and a lot of the fex bio-morphs aren't represented. If it is an early playlist then thats good-> while a lot of the stuff I don't like, there is quite a few things I can agree with (cheap horms, T5 warriors, beefier lictors) and there's a couple of things there that have been brought up as things we'd like to see in the next dex(there's a couple of changes in that playlist that have been talked about at Warp Shadow). If its an early playlist then odds are GW is looking at what the players would like to see in the next book. On the other hand, there's always a good chance its a hoax-> it seems to be following more of the super simplistic style that CSM had than the more complex types that the new marine book and rumored IG book seem to have;

Changed the color so people could actually read it. I can't wait for a new Nid dex as they will be my next army and my Necrons won't have a new dex until the world ends in 2012 :(.

**Nofasse 'Eadhunta**

ED209 wrote:
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:I recently heard a couple of things about the new Nids.

- They're getting a template weapon.
- Carnifex will have lowered Strength.

That's about it from me.

I guess ur info came with this article below ,some one posted in our chinese forum ,but it's totally fake

I can understand if it's fake, my friend told me this, and he's moron who believes anything that sounds good to him lol.

**combat engineer**

Seemed a bit hokey to me to.

Mat

**ED209**

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:I can understand if it's fake, my friend told me this, and he's moron who believes anything that sounds good to him lol.

lol,my analysis on this is that basicly there isnt a single new model in the text,so he/she missed the main point on a new codex : to sell more models , and the reason for that is because if you wirte fake ones you dont want to make up complete new stuff ,because that's more easier to get screw up than edit old ones.

**Squig_herder**

When is the "rough" date for this?

**livingregret**

They need to do something...as much as GW "doesn't write rules based on Tournaments", Nids took a HUGE hit come 5th edition. So many things are either useless or overpriced for what it does. Shooty nids seem to be a good way to go now because all assaulting nids go down so freakin quick

**Anung Un Rama**

I guess they'd probably be an "easy fix" so we might get it this year.
And since they need new shiney toys to sell the new book, a plastic Trygon seems not that unlikely.

**ED209**

Squig_herder wrote:When is the "rough" date for this?

ten days ago in our forum

**ED209**

Anung Un Rama wrote:I guess they'd probably be an "easy fix" so we might get it this year.
And since they need new shiney toys to sell the new book, a plastic Trygon seems not that unlikely.

have you ever seen other armies got super heavy or titan in their codex? my bet for Trygon is on the Planet strike.

**aka_mythos**

Trygon's been rumored by a couple of people as something that will be with the codex and not planet strike. That could always change, but planet strike's big releases appear to be terrain.

**Anung Un Rama**

Maybe it doesn't have to be a Superheavy. The Trygon is still shorter/smaller than a Monolith.

**jackinthetank**

If the Old One Eye and Red Terror rules were brought back, I would play Tyranids

**Anung Un Rama**

Can Old One Eye do anything you can't do with the current 'Fex rules?

**kirsanth**

Yes. It can regenerate even after being "killed".

**Hellfury**

livingregret wrote: They need to do something...as much as GW "doesn't write rules based on Tournaments", Nids took a HUGE hit come 5th edition. So many things are either useless or overpriced for what it does. Shooty nids seem to be a good way to go now because all assaulting nids go down so freakin quick

Cry me a river.

Count me amongst the people who have abso-frikkin-lutely no sympathy for tyranids in 5th ed using 4th ed codex.
Not because I hate them, but because they are still competitive.

Tyranids are likely to see three codex rewrites (3rd, 4th, & 5th ed codices) before many codex even see a second rewrite (Dark eldar being chief amongst this group and their second version doesnt count because of added vehicle options, that was a lazy attempt at a fix), Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Blood Angels, etc...

So yeah, more whining from the tyranid players, please. It really is completely warrented.

**ChaoticFlanagan**

kirsanth wrote:Yes. It can regenerate even after being "killed".

Old One Eye was also guaranteed a wound back at the end of the turn opposed to having to roll.

**FlammingGaunt**

Well as for a new Tyranid codex I think it's going to come relatively soon with the Trygon rumors. But as long as you have a second army that didn't get boned by 5th edition it's ok you don't want these things rushed. That"s how you get the csm codex.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Frankly, 'Nids only need fixing for about 10% of the stuff (and then it's mostly minor things). Probably closer to 5% if you discount stuff that didn't work in 4th. So, I would have to agree with the Statement that they are not in Desperate need of a New Codex.

**Wannabe Writer**

The only things I feel that need tweaking for a new Nid codex is lictors need a complete re-write and some plastic gargoyles would be nice. Could also do with lowering the cost of rending, but other then that I find the current codex still competitive. Of course like anyone I'd still be pleased to see a load of shiny new units.

**Railguns**

That and gaunts being totally boned by no retreat, which allows for such silliness as the larger creatures actually being killed of in close combat without even being attacked because of the bullet eating ablative wounds getting chewed up. I don't think they need a whole codex re-write but right now playing to the Tyranid fluff is suicidal.

**Wannabe Writer**

I don't think that no retreat needs tweaking at all, but I guess that depends how big a brood is. My brood of hormagaunts don't go into battle in any brood smaller than 32 models and my normal gaunts never lower than 16. This means that even loosing combat and taking extra wounds I've still got gaunts to hold up the enemy (which is in essence what gaunts are there for). Once or twice I have lost my whole brood of 32 hormagaunts in one go, but that has been to rock hard combat units (Khorne berzerkers and a big unit of tooled up Ork Nobz) and it makes sense that these units would chew through little gribblies. Never lost a big thing though excess wounds when joining in with gaunts in combat though, but so far it's not been an issue as most of the time when a fex or tyrant joins in the opponent is gubbed

.

I think the Nids still work in their current state as it makes them a challenge to play and makes you think tactically, but I would still like a new codex.