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I had someone quit during my turn 2 shooting phase (I went first) and complained that my list was 'powergaming/cheesy' and even went so far as to say that I should not take any units from a different codex (I had a grey knight brother captain with psychic hood). Note, this is my standard, all-comers 2k vanilla space marine list.

Here is the 2k list:

Cassius
Brother Captain w/storm bolter, nemesis force weapon, psychic hood

2 x 10 tactical marines w/flamer and lascannon and sarge w/chainsword and bolt pistol w/razorback
1 x 10 tactical marines w/melta and lascannon and sarge w/combi-melta and bolt pistol w/razorback

1 x 7 assault termies w/6 th/ss and sarge with lc's

2 x 3 attack bikes w/hb

Crusader w/multi-melta
Redeemer w/multi-melta
Predator w/hb sponsons

My opponent was playing chaos space marines with double lash demon princes, 6 oblits, chosen unit, and chaos space marines w/MoN. Some in rhinos and some foot slogging it.

Game was dawn of war and capture and control.

So am I the King of Wisconsin or not?

LOL that is actually hilarious, a Double Lash Prince Oblit Spamming MoN Marine players complains about THIS?

Don't you have to have a SM HQ to be able to get the Grey Knight one also? I didn't think they counted toward your one standard? What squad goes into the 2nd LR? I assume Termies in Crusader and a tac squad in the other?

I only have a couple of questions... (Don't listen to him about allies to, don't let some idiot tell you how to make your army lol do what YOU want)

1. What did you kill on your 1/2 turn/s?
2. Did he kill anything of yours?
3. How did he set up? Did he spam your marines into tight groups then plasma cannon them?

There's nothing cheesy about your list...the guy sounds like an idiot.

First, he's using double lash and complaining about your list being "cheesy"

Second, he's not even running a lash list properly. I mean seriously, CSM+MoN and Chosen lol? Plague marines are infinitely better!

Looks like he just saw a post somewhere about double lash+oblits being the best way to play CSM, and then didn't have the intelligence to figure out the rest of the army. Classic copy paste

EzeKK wrote:Don't you have to have a SM HQ to be able to get the Grey Knight one also? I didn't think they counted toward your one standard?

Cassius is my space marine hq. He is the t6 chaplain for 125pts.

EzeKK wrote:What squad goes into the 2nd LR? I assume Termies in Crusader and a tac squad in the other?

Termies and chaplain go in crusader. Brother-Captain and a combat squad (with melta and sarge combi-metla) goes in the redeemer.

EzeKK wrote:I only have a couple of questions... (Don't listen to him about allies to, don't let some idiot tell you how to make your army lol do what YOU want)

1. What did you kill on your 1/2 turn/s?
2. Did he kill anything of yours?
3. How did he set up? Did he spam your marines into tight groups then plasma cannon them?

1. I killed a handful of marines on turn 1 (3 or 4 I think). Turn 2 I got my redeemer into range and fried a bunch of forward deployed foot slogging marines
(6 or 7 I think with the redeemer). I also killed a forward deployed demon prince with mass hb fire and some lascannons.

2. I don't think I took a single casualty. He did try to take out my crusader with a demon prince, but failed.

3. Dawn of war deployment and night fighting rules really borked him turn 1. I had first turn and there was nothing really to lash much. I think he made some deployment mistakes, but he quit way early before anything had even been remotely decided.

VVar wrote:There's nothing cheesy about your list...the guy sounds like an idiot.

First, he's using double lash and complaining about your list being "cheesy"

Second, he's not even running a lash list properly. I mean seriously, CSM+MoN and Chosen lol? Plague marines are infinitely better!

Looks like he just saw a post somewhere about double lash+oblits being the best way to play CSM, and then didn't have the intelligence to figure out the rest of the army. Classic copy paste

To be fair, he used to be a khorne player and doesn't want to go with the standard plague marine chaos list.

I can't really disagree with the rest.

- Edit: O LOL I didn't even see Cassuis above that Brother Captain! Idk why I just skipped over that... lol.

Bad deployment and not having cultists marines ruins this list, Chosen could work very well with being forward and benefiting from the lash even more so, but putting your DP's in the wide open in the first turn to be shot at is just plain stupid.

Im guessing this was a little kid? (11-13)?

Your list if fine, deadly too, and he was just being stupid/sore loser/quitter. I think that pretty pathetic that he quit that early. I would use nightfighting to get even better position on you and hide the DP's. With another DP and a bunch of marines, he still could have won.

EzeKK wrote:- Edit: O LOL I didn't even see Cassuis above that Brother Captain! Idk why I just skipped over that... lol.

Bad deployment and not having cultists marines ruins this list, Chosen could work very well with being forward and benefiting from the lash even more so, but putting your DP's in the wide open in the first turn to be shot at is just plain stupid.

Im guessing this was a little kid? (11-13)?

Your list if fine, deadly too, and he was just being stupid/sore loser/quitter. I think that pretty pathetic that he quit that early. I would use nightfighting to get even better position on you and hide the DP's. With another DP and a bunch of marines, he still could have won.

I agree. If he manages to kill my crusader with the assault termies, he can lash and pc them to death. He still had 6 lc shots and one prince left to try and do that with.

As for his age, he is even older than I am by a few years (and I have seven (7) grandchildren).

I wanted to make a vanilla space marine list with a splash of units across the foc that was competitive without running 4+ land raiders or 20-30 terminators.

Do I have enough anti-tank? It's debatable. Do I get killed in kp missions? You bet.

All dice being equal, is it fun to play? You bet and I think I can give all but the 'beardiest/cheesiest lists' a really good run for their money.

wow... lol ok then. Well, keep up the good work killing the lash prince lists

Ever thought of taking Grey Knight termies? Those guys are just plain NASTY! Had 5 of them run through 5 immortals and two 10 man squads of warriors with a lord with a res orb before biting the dust to 2x Monoliths and some destroyers. Combined with that Brother Captain they get even better.

EzeKK wrote:wow... lol ok then. Well, keep up the good work killing the lash prince lists

Ever thought of taking Grey Knight termies? Those guys are just plain NASTY! Had 5 of them run through 5 immortals and two 10 man squads of warriors with a lord with a res orb before biting the dust to 2x Monoliths and some destroyers. Combined with that Brother Captain they get even better.

Yep, sure could. I could drop the attack bikes and probably pick up enough to put in the redeemer, but I wanted to stick with hb spam as opposed to termie spam.

I may do that someday for a change of pace is they ever release plastic gk termies.

It's perfectly true, there's nothing cheesy about your list at all...try showing him my Scythes list, and comparing that to yours - maybe he'll change his tune then

I'd humbly suggest that if he doesn't want to run double lash with PMs, maybe a different direction? Its somewhat like trying to eat soup with a fork. Sure, it can be done, but is it worth the effort?

I find it very funny and a dual lash list thinks that yours is the powergamer/cheese list. He is just whining because his lash tactics didn't work.

I think you have a good build going for vanilla marines. If there weren't so many lash lists running around then few marines would need to ally to get psy hood, null rod, etc.