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Hello all,
The local store has upped their next tournament from 1750 to 2250. I need to up my army by 500 points. I have a good amount of 'build time' (3+ weeks and 2 full days off) so please: suggest away.

Here's what I've come up with after consulting some of my local buddies(of course, they're playing too).

HQ
Captain Sicarius: 200 pts
Chaplain(Melta bombs and Digi Wpns): 115 pts

TR
2x Tactical Squad (10 men: Plasma Gun and Multi-Melta): 180 pts/e (360 pts total)
Tactical Squad (10 men: Flamer and Lascannon): 180 pts
Scout Squad (10 men: Bolters and Heavy Bolter): 150 pts

EL
3x Dreadnought (Multi-Melta): 105 pts/e (315 pts total)

FA
Attack Bike Sqd (3 Bikes: Multi-Meltas): 150 pts
Assault Squad (10 men: 2 Flamers, Fist, Rhino)
Assault Squad (10 men: 2 Plasma Pistils, Fist, Rhino)

HS
Vindicator (Extra Armor): 130 pts
Whirlwind: 85 pts
Predator (AC and Heavy Bolters): 85 pts

Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

I don't like multi-melta's in tacticals or devastator squads. Try ml's, lascannons or plasma cannons.

You will need transports for your troops.

And no land raiders? In a 2250 list?

Two minimum and three would be a good idea.

I would also suggest taking Chaplain Cassius instead of a generic chaplain.

I've thought about Cassius, but it's hard to come up with extra points. I could drop the Heavy Botler from the scouts, but that diminishes the shootyness of them. If I did that i'd probably swap the bolters for CCW or Shotguns.

I feel that I have enough mobility. Extra rhinos would defeat the purpose of having the two tacs with all 24" weapons that are supposed to shoot until they can't and then move. The 3rd tac is supposed to hold an objective and possibly plink at tanks with the Lascannon(maybe with Tank Hunter).

I suggest scrapping this list altogether and borrowing Sanchez's Deathwing.

This list is scary. I'm looking at my Marines and I'm thinking...you outnumber and outgun me. A Vindi and a Pred and 3 Dreadnoughts? and 2 assault squads?

Hokey smokes, I only have 7 choices in my whole army.

KeithGatchalian wrote:

I suggest scrapping this list altogether and borrowing Sanchez's Deathwing.

Why? So I can show him how to play it effectively?

KeithGatchalian wrote:
This list is scary. I'm looking at my Marines and I'm thinking...you outnumber and outgun me. A Vindi and a Pred and 3 Dreadnoughts? and 2 assault squads?

Hokey smokes, I only have 7 choices in my whole army.

You know I like to have numbers when I can. It kills me in every kill point mission, though.

Will we have the pleasure of your company at this tourney(April 25th)?

I'm hoping to be there as well. My daemons have been my goto army for tourneys and such, but there's no way I can get them to 2250 in 3 weeks without some major purchases/rush building-painting.

If you're not going to use transports, I'd suggest using a libriarian with Gates of Infinity for objective capturing instead of a chaplain. Even with Sicarious granting infiltrate or scout to outflank, it's still going to hard to predict where that outflank will occur.

Hmmm the last time I missed a tourney there was....when Frank was in town! I wonder why I missed that <grin>

I have to say, the last tourney rocked. I am hoping they keep the same high standards and don't slack off, like giving us the old 3rd edition missions again, or using the complete GT paint judging...for a 3 game tourney.

I wish Sanchez would get that DW painted. I want to play against the whole thing.

One thing that woudl worry me about this list is your tac squads lack even a PW/Pf or 2. When they get assaulted they really need those extra kills to try and win combat.

I would look at putting your assault squad w/ 2 PP back on their jet packs and giving your chappy a jump pack. this would give you a unit that could sit back with your tac squads and give a BRUTAL counter-assault or pop the light transports that are trying to reach your troops. You have more then enough other things people will want to focus on killing so they wont be a primary target.

And last thing I would look at taking the extra armor off then vindi and putting it on the rhino w/ assault marines. It is a little more important that the transport be able to keep moving so it can dump its cargo.

JohnOSpencer wrote:I've thought about Cassius, but it's hard to come up with extra points. I could drop the Heavy Botler from the scouts, but that diminishes the shootyness of them. If I did that i'd probably swap the bolters for CCW or Shotguns.

I feel that I have enough mobility. Extra rhinos would defeat the purpose of having the two tacs with all 24" weapons that are supposed to shoot until they can't and then move. The 3rd tac is supposed to hold an objective and possibly plink at tanks with the Lascannon(maybe with Tank Hunter).

The 3rd tac squad is fine (even though the scouts are probably better with holding your static objective if you gave them camo). It's the other two that are the problem. 24" range heavy weapons just don't work on foot sloggers, not to mention the fact they really don't become solid anti-tank until they are within 12". Switch 'em to to hb's or pc's. You have tons of melta (even if they are kinda fragile, there is just so much of it) so the extra short-to-medium range anti-tank on foot sloggers just isn't necessary and a waste of a heavy weapon slot imho.

Damn, those guys are really unliked...and they're my favorite. I'll have to think about the weapon swap. It'd have to be Heavy Bolters, Plasma Cannons cost points and I got none.

Are the 2 HBs really worth the loss of 2 Multi-Meltas? It's 2 more shots per squad with 3 less strength and 3 less AP.

Plasma Cannons in Tactical squads are a steal at 5 points over a heavy bolter. Against MEQ's, one good shot can make back the points of the combat squad that shot it, or maybe more than the entire Tactical squad.

You mentioned using Tank Hunters or Scout to Outflank. Have you thought about using Infiltrate (and drop the transport) on one of the 24" squads? You can drop them on an objective, and then the MM has an important threat radius right from the start. I normally do this with a Tac squad with PlasCannon, Plasmagun, Plasma Pistol/Powerweapon/Meltabombs. They handle themselves quite well, sitting in cover and spewing plasma in every direction. I've thought about doing the same thing with a Meltagun/Multi-Melta squad, but never tried it.

As far as other list critique, I think it's very solid, and I love that you've got Assault squads in Rhinos. Very few people will see that coming. I would suggest dropping the plasma pistols on the Assault Marines, though. Honestly, you may want to drop the flamers too, since the worst thing you can do is shoot yourself out of assault range with these guys. Although, I can see the utility of having them firing out of the hatches. The Extra Armor on the Vindicator isn't doing you much good. Movement is not really valuable on a Vindi without the ability to shoot, I'd just take a Siege Shield so you can ram through cover once the Cannon is destroyed.

Don't know if any of that will fit in your game plan, but good luck! I'm very interested to hear what kind of cool synergies other players have come up with for Sicarious. If you do manage to slide 35 points free, a Drop Pod on one of those MM Dreadnoughts might get you even more mileage out of it, and introduce some pain to your opponent first turn with rear-melta shots. I use that trick myself, but with a Heavy Flamer on the Dread as well to be a threat to both Armor and infantry in cover since many armies will have one or the other.

Well, generally I think that Space Marines are stronger at smaller point levels, while at 2250 pts there are better armies out there.
For instance, look at your HS, its not really heavy at this pt level.

I'd take 3x10 Terminators to start with, add three Tactical units, and use 3x3 Attack Bikes.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, generally I think that Space Marines are stronger at smaller point levels, while at 2250 pts there are better armies out there.
For instance, look at your HS, its not really heavy at this pt level.

I'd take 3x10 Terminators to start with, add three Tactical units, and use 3x3 Attack Bikes.

So what you are saying is drop everything that you already own/have put together/painted and spend sevral hundred bucks to make an entirely new army. You're mad, he is asking what would make his current list better not how do I make a new army. Also why in the heck would you want to take 3 units of foot slogging termis? Oh look, its a squad of termies that just deep struck, *hops in transports and drives away. Now your 400+ point unit is pretty much worthless. 2 8 man teams in LRs ok, but not 30 foot sloggers.

/end derail

I love multi-meltas. It helps that I play a Salamander-based army (apparently everyone does from what I've heard). When I run tac squads, I usually put them in rhinos and sit on objectives, or dump them into cover. Occasionally, I'll combat squad them with the "assault" element in the rhino and the "range" element behind a barricade or something.

I'm personally not a fan of predators, but I can see why you've got one in your list.

I'd also see about finding the points to upgrade your Dreadnoughts' Storm Bolters to Heavy Flamers.

I played a test game against daemons tonight. Pretty pleased with how everything worked.

Since it was Dawn of War deployment, I used Sicarius to outflank with one of the MM/PG squads. Worked pretty well until the 8 Bloodcrushers showed up in front of them. The plasma pistols worked pretty good, the flamers were ok.

The Predator was amazing! It killed a Thunder Chicken in one turn of shooting(lucky!).

I've got two days of hobbying and playtesting ahead of me. I'll see if I can try some of the ideas you guys have given me(Plasma Cannons and all).

I'm still working on some of the ideas.

JohnOSpencer wrote:I played a test game against daemons tonight. Pretty pleased with how everything worked.

Since it was Dawn of War deployment, I used Sicarius to outflank with one of the MM/PG squads. Worked pretty well until the 8 Bloodcrushers showed up in front of them. The plasma pistols worked pretty good, the flamers were ok.

The Predator was amazing! It killed a Thunder Chicken in one turn of shooting(lucky!).

I've got two days of hobbying and playtesting ahead of me. I'll see if I can try some of the ideas you guys have given me(Plasma Cannons and all).

I'm still working on some of the ideas.

So how did it go and what was the final list?

Drop 1 Dreadnought, 1 Assualt squad, Whirlwind, for Land Raiders and/or 3 Thunderfire Cannons. If you're not having the Land Raiders then up the 2 Dreadnoughts with ML's and Lascannons. Then keep them at the back.