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MKII won, Menoth has been beaten with the nerf stick. Most of the auto-include units all received a nerf each. Nice that mat went up, I'll trade it for the way it was though. I was wondering if anything would be done to make knights errants worthwhile, I guess not, in fact now they can't shoot incorpeal models, looking at the entire army, I noticed I'm in a hole in that department, only my warcasters can shoot incorperal stuff. I like how I just bought the legends book, and now thats going to be a worthless investment, least the pictures are pretty.

How did everyone elses factions fare?

Why can't Knights Errant shoot Incorporeal models?

Their crossbows clearly have the magical weapon icon on them.

oh? rules replaced with dumb icons?

Sazzlefrats wrote:oh? rules replaced with dumb icons?

Icons that reduce the amount of text.

You'll get used to it.

i play cygnar, but about the only thing that bugs me is that my sword knights lost a bit of stuff.
Reading all the DOOOOOOM on the pp forum has been a laugh

assuming i have a nice little cheat sheet for a while, symbols don't really bother me

Did anyone happen to notice that Vilimon turns all paladins into him The High Reclaimer got hosed, all the other casters were either the same or better and Zealots got what they deserved but are still really good. I wouldn't cry too much, at least you don't have the Darius/Haley woes.

On a side note the one guy who should have been nerfed, Goreshade is still a major

Vilmon does do that, but every warcaster in the game has melee magical weapons.

Harbinger lost a lot of defensive ability and in return got the ability to use arc nodes. I rather
liked that limitation. Ah well.

Reznik got his Zealot's Rage changed into Iron Aggression, which means it's warjack only. However,
in exchange they seem to have given him Engine of Destruction, so I won't complain
too much about that.

Looks, like solo's are whats basically more expensive.

I don't like the new HR much. 2d6 was too random, but 1d3+3 is just to little, even if you get to activate them on the same turn...it does sort of change his playstyle, though, as does the new Reclaim rules.

Reznik becomes a lean, mean threat range 12" MAT 11 (!) POW+STR 18 killing machine under Engine of Destruction. If he gets off Brand of Heresy as well, plus pulls a FOC from a Wrack, you are looking at 3-4 brutal hits that will hit pretty much any DEF and deliver a lot of hurt.

I'm quite happy when the "aargh, what did they do to my precious Zealots/Idrians/Cleansers/Errants" mental shockwave dies down. Looking forward to getting some play testing in. The only thing I really don't approve of is the 6/10 unit size limitation. When the hole is triangular, the new square or round peg system won't cut it...

Yay for being in the DOOM! phase. Some of the things that got nerfed were a long, long time in coming. Zealots are still good, they still have a turn where they are immune to physical damage (even if they can be hurt by magic now) and they still get +4 arm when one dies. I'm not sad that the "auto-includes" got nerfed a bit, much better for diversity! I never took Idrians, so I don't really know how much worse they are now, so I'll have to read up on that.

It'll take some time to get used to, but I'm happy with the new stuff so far. And it seems to me that Amon got a bit of a boost, so that's nice. Vilmon also seems to have gotten better(!) and the Sunburst is much, much better now.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
Reznik becomes a lean, mean threat range 12" MAT 11 (!) POW+STR 18 killing machine under Engine of Destruction. If he gets off Brand of Heresy as well, plus pulls a FOC from a Wrack, you are looking at 3-4 brutal hits that will hit pretty much any DEF and deliver a lot of hurt.

I will miss Firestarter as that spell was pretty hilarious.

Did you notice that Wracks now explode for POW14 for everything under the template whether or not they have focus on them now? You can have Reznik drop a model, place the Wrack 3" away from him, but near a mob of enemies, then have an Errant shoot it. Boom, baby.

I see the Devout's defensive strike has weakened but its shield guard has improved (slightly).

Epic Severius seems greatly reduced in potency, which is good.

Epic Feora's 'Caustic Fire' - fire doesn't go out in her control area looks painful, especially for low ARM Warcasters and Warlocks.

All Mk II has done is reset the metagame. there's still 'the best' for the points, we just haven't figured out what it is. In any point based game, there will always be something that is borken, broken, cheese, or 'the best'.

Best for its points.... pKreoss :p its old but aged well.

That's too bad.

eFeora has less reason to use Flameguard unless fear checks become really really common.

Reznik got hit hard. The fact that Perdition no longer works for himself is a bad hit, and yeah Firestarter was such an awesome spell. Witch Hammer went away too, unfortunately. I didn't use it often, but having the option was nice.

The devout was massively downgraded. Now it doesn't have to MOVE to intervene, it can just take the shot by standing next to its caster. The problem is, that before the moving would put it in the way and prevent FURTHER shots at the warcaster that turn. Now as long as you have two chances, one is going to be able to get through to the caster.

Of course this also means that having multiple devouts around your caster is going to keep him quite safe from ranged attacks. However, and this is the real biggie, the Defensive strike got nerfed to hell. It no longer hits at +2, it no longer has boosted damage rolls, and it no longer causes a MAT debuff. Blessings of Vengeance is the same way, and its shield doesn't do excessive repel anymore, so there's quite a bit less it can do with that.

On the other hand, the shield never goes away apparently. So when you disable a shield arm, it's still available as a weapon [albeit at 1d6 to hit], but does it still give its armor bonus too? That'll be nice, and that also means its special ability will be active until the jack is boxed.

So...would one be better off with a different light (like a repenter, or redeemer for hawt, hawt rocket action, or is the Dervish actually worthwhile now)? Or is the devout still worth it after the revenger?

I'm tinkering with Severius, I'm running avatar, blessing of vengence and redeemer. You'd think I'd run a 4th jack, but Severious doesn't need a devout for spell ward.


So far I like running with a big beat stick, the scalpel (aka blessing of vengeance) and the topical antiseptic (the redeemer)

35pt list

Severius

The Avatar
Blessing of Vengence
Redeemer

Hierophant
Vassal
Reclaimer
Wrack (3)
Choir (Min)
Sunburst Cannon (not sure still)
Full Temple Flameguard

It seems to be decent.

The new, more expensive Cleanser bomb:

Run a (min) unit of Cleansers up to the enemy, into melee if you have to.

The Vanquisher moves up under Battle Hymn and fires the Flame Belcher at the Cleansers' backs. Vassal Ancillary attacks it. Zealots do the same.

For extra surviveability, the Cleansers then get PoM on them if your caster has it. With proper placement and some luck, you can do it all over again next turn. If you start by firebombing Cleansers in melee, you can probably clear some of them to Spray as well.

malfred wrote:That's too bad.

eFeora has less reason to use Flameguard unless fear checks become really really common.

Unless they have their attachment with them.

Oops, I should have stipulated Daughters and Cleansers.

But they took +1 MAT RAT CMD from elite Cadre, didn't they?

flameguard cleansers still explode? I didn't see any text, was it in the main rule book?

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:The new, more expensive Cleanser bomb:

Run a (min) unit of Cleansers up to the enemy, into melee if you have to.

The Vanquisher moves up under Battle Hymn and fires the Flame Belcher at the Cleansers' backs. Vassal Ancillary attacks it. Zealots do the same.

For extra surviveability, the Cleansers then get PoM on them if your caster has it. With proper placement and some luck, you can do it all over again next turn. If you start by firebombing Cleansers in melee, you can probably clear some of them to Spray as well.

They don't.

He means using them as targets for flame based attacks since they're immune.