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I'm just looking for opinions here.

The rules for DOW state that transports count as a troops choice, so if you are wanting to deploy an embarked unit of troops you can only deploy the 1 troop and it's transport, which counts as the 2nd allowed troops choice.

These rules are covered on page 93(especially the examples given) and 87 of the BRB.

I'm just wondering what you all think out there. Do you feel that this hoses certain armies over others to the point of brokeness?

GG

Um, no. because if each army deploys a troop+transport, they both have 1 Squad on the board.

If one deploys 2 squads and the other has 1+transport, then the guy in the transport is a Lot more mobile.

In short, No it doesn't. Don't try to use a deployment type as an excuse for poor Generalmanship (is that even a word?).

generalgrog wrote:The rules for DOW state that transports count as a troops choice,

No they don't.

What they do is only allow you to deploy 2 units from your Troops selection. A squad with a vehicle is two units in one FOC slot. That's always the case, not just in DoW.

Do you feel that this hoses certain armies over others to the point of brokeness?

How would it?

generalgrog wrote:I'm just wondering what you all think out there. Do you feel that this hoses certain armies over others to the point of brokeness?

Not really.

If you have a mech army in DoW you already have an advantage due to your increased mobility. That more than compensates for a very slight disadvantage in deployment.

Then consider that it's more than fair when you have armies that can take things like battlewagons and land raiders for troop squads.

Yeah, I tend to concur that it's fair. If a unit + their transport isn't a good pair of units for you to deploy, just pick another pair of units. Or start them in Reserve.

I never said that I believed that it was broken or unfair.

Continue discussion.


GG

Gwar! wrote:Um, no. because if each army deploys a troop+transport, they both have 1 Squad on the board.

If one deploys 2 squads and the other has 1+transport, then the guy in the transport is a Lot more mobile.

In short, No it doesn't. Don't try to use a deployment type as an excuse for poor Generalmanship (is that even a word?).

Generalship is, so close ;-)

Neconilis wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Um, no. because if each army deploys a troop+transport, they both have 1 Squad on the board.

If one deploys 2 squads and the other has 1+transport, then the guy in the transport is a Lot more mobile.

In short, No it doesn't. Don't try to use a deployment type as an excuse for poor Generalmanship (is that even a word?).

Generalship is, so close ;-)

Please continue. But Nah, DoW is pretty balanced... Untill you get things like all drop pod lists breaking it.
Heres what happened:
My 6 Pod SW list at 1500 points.
I get T1. I decide to not put 2 Squads of GH n their pods and keep the pods empty in reserve, and set them on the Halfway mark.
My opponent puts his 2 Troops and HQ (in this case a Necron Lord and 2 x 10 Man Warrior Squads) about 20" away from them.
3 Pods full of Grey Hunters come down turn one, giving me 6 Units to his 3, which proceed to wipe out all 20 Warriors and Lord off the table.

And nothing of Value Was lost.

Well, if the transport in question is a fast vehicle (like an Ork Trukk) and the player controlling it got the first turn it could be deployed near the middle of the table, then move 12" up....

Of course it would be completely unsupported since the rest of the army would be coming in from the table edge, and it would probably be the only thing in range of the enemy's ranged weapons thanks to the nightfight rules.

It would most likely get blown to smithereens in the first turn...but y'know...

You can use having a transport on the table to your advantage as well.

For my chaos, I routinely start with Noise Marines and their rhino on the board, but I don't put the NMs in the rhino, I put them somewhere with good LoS and in cover, and have the rhino advanced fairly far up the board.

On my turn, I move the rhino 6" closer, and fire at a unit. If I make my night fighting roll, my entire army that just moved on the board can see and shoot at the spot-lighted unit, and my only sacrifice to do so is one rhino.

It works best if you go second and have something big to hide the rhino behind.

Reminds me of the time where i played a SW player who (in a DoW game) deployed his CC HQ terminator squad of doom in a Land Raider.

When I told him that dedicated transports count as one of your selections for HQ and 2Troop, he *refused* to believe me. When I pointed it out in the rules, he again refused to believe and kept saying that it applied only to troops.

Now that is an unfair advantage!

Well that actually raises the question can a SW Character with a Bodyguard even deploy in a DoW game, as the Bodyguard is an Elites Slot.

Gwar! wrote:

Neconilis wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Um, no. because if each army deploys a troop+transport, they both have 1 Squad on the board.

If one deploys 2 squads and the other has 1+transport, then the guy in the transport is a Lot more mobile.

In short, No it doesn't. Don't try to use a deployment type as an excuse for poor Generalmanship (is that even a word?).

Generalship is, so close ;-)

Please continue. But Nah, DoW is pretty balanced... Untill you get things like all drop pod lists breaking it.
Heres what happened:
My 6 Pod SW list at 1500 points.
I get T1. I decide to not put 2 Squads of GH n their pods and keep the pods empty in reserve, and set them on the Halfway mark.
My opponent puts his 2 Troops and HQ (in this case a Necron Lord and 2 x 10 Man Warrior Squads) about 20" away from them.
3 Pods full of Grey Hunters come down turn one, giving me 6 Units to his 3, which proceed to wipe out all 20 Warriors and Lord off the table.

And nothing of Value Was lost.

That Drop pod example is the kind of example that I was looking for. So "theoretically" the drop pod army could have a serious advantage, if their opponent only deployed 1 troop with transport +possible HQ. But their opponent could have chosen to keep everything in reserve correct? Or... what if they deployed in terrain so that the drop pods would scatter further away, or even better yet, deploy in terrain close to their own deployment zone so that when it's there turn come on, they will be able to obliterate whatever is left of the Drop podded force.(theoretically anyway)


So it seems that when playing DOW you have to think differently then normal. And as always adjust your strategy based on the opponent your playing. It seems to me that their are a lot variables and thus counters when playing DOW so that if you played smartly you could minimize advantages, if not totally eliminate them.

Our sample is still small, but the consensus so far is that it is not broken or imbalanced for certain armies.

What about demon armies? Are they advantaged?

Still waiting for the dissenting opinions :-)

GG

I think the advantage/disadvantage really depends on your army. If you decide not to take transports, it's a choice which gives you more points elsewhere. I don't think it really breaks anything.

My only real beef with Dawn of War deployment is the frequency with which it comes up. So many of my last games (10 of the last 12) have come up Dawn of War/Annihilation that my buddy and I have ceased to even consider using that combo. Admittedly, that's probably more an issue with our dice than the deployment type though.