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I played a 25 point game last night. Cygnar vs Cygnar (just worked out that way). My opponent took 4 jacks and Stryker (Thunderhead, Defender, Charger, Lancer). I had Stryker, Gun Mages, Lancer, Ironclad, Charger, chain gun crew, and Hunter.

Played very well. What we noticed:

- "Shake It Off" was huge. My earthquake did not slow down his Thunderhead, who just stood up and charged.

- 'Jacks feel nearly unstoppable, esp the heavy ones. The need to kill every box, and the ability to still attack with crippled systems, is crazy great. They are hulking horrors that now imply "Dear God, how do I stop that?"

- In Mk1 my list would have owned his 4 jack list between the gun mage cortex shells and earthquake. However gun mages work differently, and earthquake hurt my infantry more than his jacks. (Shake it off)

- Higher MAT on jacks mean they are STILL nasty in combat, even without focus (ie. they've been disrupted or lost cortex). For example, I charged his Defender with my Lancer and bashed him with my shield to blow out his cortex. He still managed to hit the Lancer the next few turns and beat it up good.

- Did I mention 'jacks just don't die now?

- Gun mages CRA with Arcane Inferno is neato.

-My opponent happened to be a relative WM rookie... I explained what I would have been able to do to him under MkI with the gun mages and earthquake. He said he would have found that frustrating, while the new rules made him feel like he always had options to respond with.

I really think folks won't appreciate how much"Shake it Off", changing the crippling rules, increasing MAT/RAT, and forcing all boxes to be destroyed really powers up Warjacks. They feel like the beasts of the battlefield.

Ooh, ask the newbie what else they think. I need more perspective on this!

The new rules seem pretty nasty.. Does this mean that Warmachine is no longer compatible with Hordes, or will Hordes just have adapt thier tactics against a Warmachine fraction?

I haven't had a chance to really look through the new rules, but it seems from everyone talking on dakka that they blow Hordes out of the water now...

Silverwarrior88 wrote:The new rules seem pretty nasty.. Does this mean that Warmachine is no longer compatible with Hordes, or will Hordes just have adapt thier tactics against a Warmachine fraction?

I haven't had a chance to really look through the new rules, but it seems from everyone talking on dakka that they blow Hordes out of the water now...

MK2 is not compatible with Hordes because of the points system change, but for some other reasons too. 35 points is the new 500.

malfred wrote:Ooh, ask the newbie what else they think. I need more perspective on this!

It's funny. In our playgroup, the folks who play WM more casually seem to really be interested in the new rules. Our more hard core WM players seem to be frustrated.

I think there is a bit of "Who moved my cheese" going on here with the hard core veterans.


Hordes: WM Mk II is in no way compatible with Hordes Mk I. Although privateer has stated that when WM MK II releases next year, Hordes Mk II playtest rules will be releases, which will make the games compatible again.

Wow. So if 'jacks are tough, and heavies unstoppable, what does that mean for my Khador 'jacks?

Hrmn....

The Hard Core players around here have all said "Hm, here's a new challenge" rather than just being annoyed. I like the players around here.

I'll admit to a few frustrations with changes, but most of what I used to do is the same. I'll be bringing some more 'jacks now, and that will be happy. I'll have to rethink some of my infantrymachine force.

Lucky you, odins. I hear grumblings so far.

Other reasons you don't want to mix games until next year's Hordes test:

1. Unit formation rules are different.
2. Warjacks get shake effects.
3. "Free" warcasters with "free" warjack points

Is the 'who moved my cheese' any different from the general reaction to GW rule changes? I'm not surprised that the hardcore players are more Shaken by the changes. I've always liked the jacks (why I played Darius), so I'm excited about the changes. I'm thinking Caine or eCaine, Stormunit, Stormclad, Arlan, and whatever else I can fit in sounds appealing. Maybe a Hunter or two.

Played a few games of MkII as well using eStryker, Old Witch, and Karchev.

From the first game with eStryker : Disruption + Slam = Mk1 result. Poor bugger target is slammed away, knocked down, and won't be able to be allocated focus to shrug it off. Cygnar is very nasty this way.

Anastasia DiBray is INSANE. If she starts a turn within 12" of the opposing warcaster, you are essentially going to get 2 turns. If the opposing caster is within 15" of a board edge and you have her ready to ambush, you are going to get 2 turns. If the opponent is so crushed by your 2 consecutive turn onslaught that he can't spare the attention to kill her - she will do it AGAIN next turn. Combined with eStryker's feat that essentially does the same thing, this was a very stout combo.

Old witch: My old witch games haven't included a lot of infantry yet, so her upkeep list didn't see a lot of action. She mostly leapfrogged around with scrapjack trying to Gallows (drag d6 inches towards her) things into the maw of my army. She is still the tricksy finesse option for Khador, and will take a lot of playing to figure out how to best utilize her new form.
Greylord Ternions didn't find a role as cloud effects were much less integral to her game, and making big jacks stationary just isn't going to slow them down much anymore. Mostly used for the def buff against shooting and the spray attacks later.
The berserker felt a little lost without a purpose. His poor Mat squares him off against large - easy to hit targets, against which he is a meager 2 x Pow 16 & 1 x Pow 11 damage rolls though. That would threaten a light, but you can't reliably hit a light. I haven't found a good spot for him, but at least he's cheap and self sufficient.
Widowmakers were fantastic with the wide formation, they feel like 4 solos now.

Karchev game:
Will need a ton of games to figure him out. As an avid Karchev player in MkI, I will admit that 90% of my game revolved around Iron Curtain, the loss of which left me wondering how to play this new guy. His delivery distance from start of turn to Beast-09 on target is increased to 23" from 21" (12" run, 2" base, 7" charge, 2" reach = 23"), which is of course horrifying. Sidearms is a fantastic spell and will really compete with Tow for Karchev's attention mid-game.
I did use ground-zero to clear some infantry climbing onto Karchev, but honestly the 3 focus was likely better spent on all the POW-19s the army can throw out elsewhere, or just camping the powerfield.

It will take many many more games to get this all worked out.