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I'm not playing Orks this time, but I won't give my LGS group long to rejoice!

HQ
Daemon Prince -140
w/ Wings, MoK


Elites
5 Chosen -115
w/ Flamers


Troops
8 Khorne Berzerkers -243
w/ Power fist Skull Champion, Rhino

8 Khorne Berzerkers -248
w/ Power fist Skull Champion, Rhino (w/ TL Bolter)

8 Khorne Berzerkers -208
w/ Power fist Skull Champion


Heavy Support
Defiler -150
w/ 2 additional Dreadnought weapons

Land Raider -220

2 Obliterators -150


Here's the plan; Kharn and the Berzerker unit without a ride hop into the LR and step on the gas. The Rhinos will carry the other Berzerker units and zoom forward, popping Smoke when they've reached mid-field. The LR will also pop Smoke at mid-field. The LR will try to get between the enemy so Kharn and the Berzerkers can split up and set off Assaults. The Blooded Constructs will sit back and hold my objective. The Defiler will sit in the back and blow Battlecannon pie plates onto choice foes who've got to die (Thunderfire Cannons, Biovores, etc.). He'll hang near the Constructs in the event of Drop-pods. The Oblits will also sit back and shoot at choice vehicles who've got to die too (Vindis) and, if the need ever arises, will Deep-Strike to nuke vehicles who absolutely must die.

Comments and suggestions are encouraged

In this tourney, the only things I can expect to face are Loyalist Marines, Tyranids, and Necrons. Any specific advice on tackling these armies with this one would be marvelous

I would never run one defiler. Things that draw too much fire should be taken in pairs. I would suggest a vindicator with possession in its place to deal with 2+ saves, and you can use the 5 points to upgrade the TL Bolter on a rhino to a combi-melta.

Why the 5 plague marines? Surely you can do better with points.

IMO you should swap plague marines for 5 chosen with 5 flamers, this makes your dafiler less of a target. Also I noticed that in one match there was a wraithlord just enough close to light up a 10 man squad of marines. What was left of the marines were few screaming babies running towards their mom (table-edge). I can't even imagine what will happen if there are 5 flamers(if flamers bust up marines sure they will bust up some anchient rusted(technicly they are already burning) robots and bugs too), also squad with flamers really fit in to a world eaters list.

Alright, now how would the Chosen get to where the fire's good? Maybe grabbing a Rhino and Outflanking?

After playing an RTT a couple weeks ago, I was very unimpressed with how Kharn the Betrayer performed. He tends to be a huge target, and doesn't really last long, especially with no immunity to instant death and the basic save of a normal marine. I would drop him for a Daemon Prince instead, or even a regular lord of khorne. That would give you some more points to spend on those chosen or maybe even flesh out a squad of zerkers.

Hmm, so you're saying he looks cute, but isn't really?

I thought up some configurations for a DP or a Lord to replace Kharn.

Khornate DP -140
w/ Wings, MoK

Khornate Lord -125
w/ MoK, Power Weapon, Combi-weapon

Khornate Termie Lord - 140
w/ MoK, Termie Armor, Pair Lightning Claws


I think I like the Termie Lord the best. Nasty, hard to kill, and can ride with the Zerkers in the LR.

A Khorne Lord with Bloodfeeder can also be just plain nasty. Some kid got like 16 attacks with his Lord one turn and wiped out a full command squad and SM leader....

A DP would also be great just for the fact hes a hell of a firemagned allowing your troops do to their thing...

OK, serious advice.
Drop the PMs.
Get another Zerk squad. Drop the Defiler and oblits and get another raider.
Kharn is awesome. 7 2+ S6 attacks on the charge?
Yes please.

I've tried the Bloodfeeder and I really don't like the risk to it. It's worked both times but I feel a bit nervous when rolling for attacks. And in a tournament setting it will only get worse.

I might use the DP rather than Kharn, partly because I already have a DP (undivided paint scheme so I can get away with any mark ). I might give him the Nurgle mark so he can soak up some shooting if he's going to be a fire magnet.

Taking out my Defiler and Oblits wouldn't leave me with much anti-tank. Chaos Land Raiders can't really be taken more than once because the Chaos standard troop choice costs just as much or even more, which is a lot. They're harder to stop than Loyalist LRs, but not necessarily as good.

Now that I think about it, Kharn really isn't that great because he has to enter an Assault by himself in order to be effective for you. If he leaves a Power fist standing, he's likely done for.

hurr hurr Bump.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:I've tried the Bloodfeeder and I really don't like the risk to it. It's worked both times but I feel a bit nervous when rolling for attacks. And in a tournament setting it will only get worse.

I might use the DP rather than Kharn, partly because I already have a DP (undivided paint scheme so I can get away with any mark ). I might give him the Nurgle mark so he can soak up some shooting if he's going to be a fire magnet.

Taking out my Defiler and Oblits wouldn't leave me with much anti-tank. Chaos Land Raiders can't really be taken more than once because the Chaos standard troop choice costs just as much or even more, which is a lot. They're harder to stop than Loyalist LRs, but not necessarily as good.

Now that I think about it, Kharn really isn't that great because he has to enter an Assault by himself in order to be effective for you. If he leaves a Power fist standing, he's likely done for.

Noo! Not a mark of nurgle in a world eaters army. If you are not using Kharn for fluff, then really, go with a Bloodfeeder Lord and 9 Berserkers w/ Powerfist in a land raider. Yes, it is risky, but that's chaos for you.

Land raiders are good as they provide cover, transport, and anti-tank. It is also the only way you can move and assault with a transport. I would not write them out yet.

Hmm, maybe I will use a BF Lord, then I won't get nuked as bad for Army Composition if I was using a DP. Although I don't like it, I will. Gotta take a risk sometime, right?

Not that I'm writing out LRs, there's one in the list already, I just don't think having more than 1 LR is good news for CSM. This is because their troops cost a lot, but for what you get from them it is quite worth it.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Hmm, maybe I will use a BF Lord, then I won't get nuked as bad for Army Composition if I was using a DP. Although I don't like it, I will. Gotta take a risk sometime, right?

Not that I'm writing out LRs, there's one in the list already, I just don't think having more than 1 LR is good news for CSM. This is because their troops cost a lot, but for what you get from them it is quite worth it.

That is a good point. But you have to consider the usefulness of a land raider. It has 14 AV all around, can transport and assault, has 2 TL Lascannon and a Heavy Bolter, and it costs less than 3 obliterators for about the same firepower.

I always go by the rule that if I run vehicles, run multiples. This way, one vehicle does not take all the anti-tank fire, meaning that it can survive longer.

You will love your Bloodfeeder Lord when it attacks for 17 attacks on the charge.

Land Raider could be really usefull in WE army, but it's firepower is nothing compared to Obliterators. And take one only, unless you play 2k+ points.

Personally I think it is better to have a reliable Lord or DP than this crazy self-wounding Lord with Bloodfedder. It WILL roll 1's in crucial moments of the game, believe me.

Me and a friend went over this list today, and he made a few recommendations.

First, drop Kharn but do not take a BF Lord. The BF will eat the Lord more than 1/3rd of the time making it quite unreliable. Instead he said to take either a Lash DP, a Nurgle Biker Lord w/Daemon weapon (he'll have to take out the PMs and grab some Bikers to back him up), a Nurgle DP w/ Wings and Warptime (personally I don't think he needs Warptime because he hits nearly everything on 3's), and a few others. I think a DP is better simply because he's an EW and can soak up some fire, especially the Nurgle DP.

He also said to consider the Chosen w/ Flamers because they can light up a nasty unit at the start of the game. Just use Infiltrate, let 'em rip.

And lastly he told me that Defilers should be taken in pairs, as their armor is pretty bad. I was thinking of replacing the Defiler with a Pred w/ TL Lascannon and HB Sponsons. Does both jobs of anti-tank and anti-infantry equally well, maybe even better.

Those are good recommendations, but you have to make the choice of having a world eaters army or a generic black legion army, which is what this current codex essentially forces you to make in order to win. Most chaos tournament lists look quite similar from what I have seen, which is really sad.

The biggest problem with the list is that you have limited ability to kill vehicles. The heavies are ok, but not great at it, and will be overloaded. If you ever run into a dread-heavy list, you'll have a really hard time doing anything, I suspect.

For heavies, I suggest either dual defilers or dual oblit units. Probably the oblits, as you need the melta weapons. Kharn is ok, fun, and thematic, you just have to be careful in how you use him.

If I do end up using one of his recommended HQs, I can make up fluff on why they are like that (that DP doesn't have to be Nurgley to have T6 )

I would go with the dual Oblits, since the Defiler is more anti-horde in his role. If I'm going to have vehicle problems, then definitely Oblits.

Problem with Kharn is, I don't have his model and would not get it in time. I might have to go with a DP since I have the model and it has worked really well for me. He could eat up some fire for the others and improve my tank-busting problem.

I refuse to use a lash prince just because they are overplayed to the extreme. I'd say go with a khorne DP. With wings, he flies around cracking open tanks like he had a can opener. Besides, it gives you some mobility and distracts some fire away from the fragile rhinos/berzerkers.

Remember, they may have taken our legions away, but that doesn't mean we have to play 2x Lash DPs with Plague Marines like a bunch of 14 year olds.

i would also consider a khorne lord on juggernaught

Although a Lash Prince would help this army by a lot, I will only play one if I think I really need it. Plus, I have fluff on why it takes a Psychic test to use it and how it works for Khorne.

Problem with a Khorne Lord on Juggs is you can't shove him in a transport. He has to foot it across the board with only good Run rolls to help him get there faster. A Lascannon shot will insta-kill too. He has no safe way to make it across the board.

Updated the list.

-Kharn was dropped for a Khorne DP

-The Blooded Constructs were dropped for Flamer Chosen.

-Added a Berzerker to the LR unit.

Let me know what you think

Never ever ever take a DP with a mark of khorne. It isnt worth it in any way, shape or form. If you want to have a combat DP without giving it a mark then give it warptime and call it 'Fury of Khorne'. The psychic powers are just too valuble to give up for +1 attack.

Kharn is one of the best special characters in the codex and a monster in combat, but he does need to be supported. It is worth putting him and 9 berzerkers in a landraider. They will do enough damage to make it well worth losing a berzerkers here and there. Remember kharn is like any other character, if you leave him running about on his own he will get shot by a lascannon or hit by a powerfist. In a landraider lascannon cant touch him and on the charge he (and the berzerkers hes with) stand a good chance of wiping out any powerfists.

For pure khorne armies it is worth skimping on the obliterators for more landraiders. The earlier turn charging is invaluble and landraiders are very difficult for a lot of armies to deal with. Drop the defiler and the oblits for another landraider and give them both demonic possession. Always being able to move and shoot is very useful for armies that have limited anti-tank and rely on transports.

Since you will be putting another berzerker squad in a landraider that frees up a rhino to put your chosen in. They are far to vulnerable on foot and will unlikely be able to get into range to use their flamers. putting them into a rhino solves both these problems.

If you have any points remaining then fill out the chosen some more so that you dont lose those flamers so quickly once they get out of their rhino.

A note about chaos lords:
They are never worth their points. Between DPs, sorcerers and special characters, CSM Lords are just too expensive. You can acheive more with any of the other potions for less points. Sure 16 attacks sounds good, but when 1/3rd of the time you wound yourself instead it just isnt worth it.