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Okay, I've championed Sicarious since he came out, and I'm thinking I may not have even fully grasped what he's capable of.

What I'd like to do is see what everyone's favorite Elite Skill is, and how they use it. Obviously just discussing the Skills hypothetically is useful, but I'd rather get to the nitty gritty of Who-does-the-what? so we can compare not only how the Skill functions, but what level of synergy we can achieve with the squad that receives it.

My own two favorites are:

"The Tank Hunters" (Granted TH, of course)

Tactical x 10, Lascannon, Meltagun, Powerfist, Combi-Melta 220 points

Say what you want about expensive Seargents, this guy is the bee's knees. This squad cranks out an effective Str 10 Lascannon, Str 9 Meltagun (and Combi-Melta), and the Powerfist strikes against vehicles at Str 9 as well. They also make a good roadblock squad if you can bait your opponent into "forcing" them to take a Death or Glory attack. TH means they automatically pass the Tank Shock LD test, and get an auto-hit with that Str 9 (+2D6) meltagun.

"Surprise! Plasma!" (Granted Scout)

Tactical x 10, Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun, Combi-Plas, Razorback with LC/T-L PG 270 Points

Ever have problems with Tau suits hiding in a corner? I have, and this is what I developed to deal with them. The forward combat squad Outflanks with the Razorback. Assuming you get your flank (which is not certain, of course), and can roll on 6" and disembark in Rapid Fire range, the squad and Razorback put out 6 plasma shots, and 4 on turns thereafter. If you have to run across the board from the wrong flank, you can still be already in their back lines, which causes any opponent to freak out a little bit. The combat squad with the Plasma Cannon gets a free Scout move to react to enemy deployment situations, as well, giving them prime firing ability on the first turn. This is especially useful if you've set up second (out of LOS), then Seize the Intiative with Sicarious' re-roll, hop out, and commence firing.

I'd really like to hear what everyone else has found effective, or if anyone else has some awesome crazy ideas to use with Sicarious.

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong, but-

1. A tactical squad may choose to combat squad as it deploys.
2. If a unit is already deployed it can't outflank.
3. Therefore you may only outflank whole squads. Half in a razorback won't cut it.

10 Bods in a rhino still has potential though.

How about I combat squad the Tactical squad, and hold one CS and the Razor in reserve, and place the other on the table. Then I declare Outflanking for the CS and it's transport as allowed by the Scout USR.

I don't understand why you say this wouldn't work.

Are las-cannons str 10?

Because you combat squad (split up the ten man unit) when you deploy said unit. Once deployed, it obviously can't be held in reserve or outflank.

The only exception to this is when deploying from a drop pod.

I could be wrong as I'm going from memory, but the important issue is when a unit is allowed to combat squad- when deploying IIRC.

From the SM Codex, page 51.

The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations. The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod. The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod.

If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.



So...

I think it's a legitimate move as the whole unit will gain the benefit from sicarius, and can enjoy different deployment locations, apart from Drop Pod delivery, which wasn't being considered.

This has come up alot, and while most people choose to ignore the RAW, OddJob is exactly right.

In order to place a unit into reserves -- it has to forgoe being deployed until after it arrives via a reserve roll.

BGB pg94 wrote:When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve.

So you can't deploy a unit and then decide to put them in reserve -- thus you can't deploy a tactical squad, combat squad it, then put half in a razorback in reserve as they have already been deployed. The same goes for scouts and the storm (sadly enough).

There's alot of little funky things you can and cannot do.

You can combat squad when coming in from reserve, like say an outflanking bike squad in a Khan army could combat squad once they've arrived and their table edge is decided.

You cannot do the same with a squad in a rhino though, as only one unit can be in a transport at a time and theunit and transport have to arrive together. This is why drop pods have the exception stated in their rules.

HTH

winterman wrote:

You can combat squad when coming in from reserve, like say an outflanking bike squad in a Khan army could combat squad once they've arrived and their table edge is decided.

No, you cannot.

You can only combat squad when deploying (except for the Drop Pod issue); arriving from reserves is not deployment. Anything held in reserve, and not in a DP, can never combat squad. They must be deployed on the table at the beginning of the game in order to Combat Squad.

Cato is awesome

I played a game the other night with a 1850 tactical squad based force against DE.

1. I won my Seize the Initiative roll on my second roll, which allowed me to pop a couple Raiders
2. Leadership 10 on my combat squads is great.
3. He killed a Talos with 1 hit The DE player was not pleased.
4. He finished off a squad of wyches (with the help of some, now dead, marines).

I really enjoy the flexibility he brings to your army. Outflanking with a tactical squad in a rhino, or S10 lascannon, Scouting a tactical squad in a Rhino to attack 1st turn, all great stuff.

jamunition wrote:Are las-cannons str 10?

No not really, they are str 9, but with the Tank Hunter Veteran Skill they are 9.
Benefit of Cato, he allow you to give one Veteran Skill to one of your Tactical Squads,
namely, Tank Hunters, Scout, Counter Attack and Infiltrate.
Cool no?


//Edge

@GeneralRetreat

I have never tried the Plasma Surprise but the Tank Hunting Squad is scary and very effective.

Personally I never leave home without Cato.


//Edge

To the earlier posters about deployment issues:

Tactical unit is deployed - one combat squad is deployed on the table, the other half is deployed in reserves, placed in the Razorback, also deployed in reserves.

It doesn't say that "deployed" means deployed on the table. Things can be deployed in reserves, too, which means that during "deployment" I say "I'm combat squading these guys, now, this half goes on the table, and this half and the Transport is in reserves, and since they have Scout, I declare that they will arrive by Outflanking."

I looked over the deployment rules again, and I can't see a problem with it.

Okay, lets redefine the topic a bit. Since we can at least agree that a Rhino-based squad can Scout and Outflank together (right?), what would everyone consider the most awesome loadouts to arrive that way?

I would certainly have to try Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs + Rhino (225 points)

Anyone else have some particularly sneaky ideas for that one?

You can only combat squad when deploying

Yes that is true. But you also deploy units that are in reserve.

BGB pg 94 wrote:Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it,moving it onto the table as described later. Then he picks another unit and deploys it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. The player may then proceed to move his other units as normal.

Emphasis mine. The Combat Squad rules never state anything about beginning of the game -- only that they must be combat squaded when deployed. In the case of reserves you make that desicion when they arrive from reserve and are about to move onto the table (or arriving via deepstrike, like say 10 terminators).

The reason they make the distinction with drop pods is because the unit inside is technically deployed as soon as the drop pod is placed -- and would thus be unable to normally split (only one unit maybe be in a transport at a time). The rules then allow them to split when they disembark instead of when they are simply deployed.
EDIT --

Tactical unit is deployed - one combat squad is deployed on the table, the other half is deployed in reserves

You don't deploy units into reserves -- you actually forgoe deploying them until they become available. Thus you simply cannot do what you are suggesting by RAW.
In order to avoid derailing the thread -- you can take this to YMDC or take a look at thisold thread.

The one I like is putting a 10 man plasma,lascannon squad pretty much anywhere on the board that I want/need. It's esp good for grabbing another objective right off the bat.

Gee winterman, I thought you were trying not to derail the thread....

The Internet.... there's always a few of that type...

It's getting Sicarious in here.

Gee winterman, I thought you were trying not to derail the thread....

The Internet.... there's always a few of that type...

You mean guys who throw out flame bait?

Just take look at the time stamps -- i posted right when you did and went back and edited my post after you asked to redefine the topic. After having gone off topic yourself mind you. No need for insults.

As far as the topic, tbh if you want outflanking shenanigans you should take Khan. One outflanking tactical is gonna do very little and is easily countered by your opponent.

Personally I like Sicarious for his leadership ability and his close combat ability. The USR granting is handy but not huge. I think he is best put to use with a very shooty army -- one that can benefit from his leadership boost and could leverage the USR. YMMV

Whatever. You still miss the point of this thread entirely. What to do WITH Sicarious.

See, what I'm asking is about a very specific area of his ability. I'm well aware of the rest of how awesome he is, I've used him in over a dozen games so far. All I'm looking for is to share ideas with other people on how to apply Battle-forged Heroes to the fullest extent.

If you want to discuss the rest of how awesome he is, there's other threads, which I've read with enthusiasm, myself. Perhaps the only thing I haven't seen a good thread is to discuss the absolute perfect application for the Talassarian Tempest Blade, but then again, I think most of us have a good idea already.

But I digress. I wish only to discuss specific applications of Battle-forged Heroes from page 85 of Codex: Space Marines. Does that help to clarify a bit?

Cato is for the old school SM players. He really enhances the army a lot.

G