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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/10 12:18:50
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Alright, I played this force the other day and got...well, slaughtered. Maybe you folks can give me some tips?
HQ
Chapter Master armed with Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Artificer Armour plus Honor Guard at five members with Chapter Banner.
Master of the Forge with a Plasma Pistol
Elites
Dreadnaught with Assault Cannon
Terminators with assault cannon
Assault Terminators armed with Lightning Claws
Troops
Ten Tactical Marines with Plasma Gun and Rocket Launcher, Sgt with Metal Bombs and a power sword
Ten Tactical Marines Flamer and Rocket Launcher, Sgt with Melta Bombs and a power sword.
Fast
3 Space Marine Bikers, Sgt with Metla bombs and a power sword plus a meltagun.
Heavy
Ironclad Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer (Thank you, Master of he Forge)
Vindicator
Land Raider Reedemer with Multi Melta.
My main problem was my armour was useless. My opponent played a combination of Marines and Sisters of Battle. By the end of turn two the Vindicator had been assaulted by Seraphims, all armed with meltabombs, and left immobilized and weaponless. The Land Raider has been hit by no less than seven melta gun shots but was finished off, once again, by a Dominion squad armed with meltabombs. Both dreadnaughts were damaged from yet more meltagun fire and when the Ironclad was assaulted by a marine squad with meltabombs and disarmed completely.
On the third turn my assault terminators, commander and honour guard all did some damage, and my regular marines managed to take out his Predetor and a Dreadnaught, but my honor guard and commander were killed by his commander and command squad (I rolled exceptionally badly, even by my standards). I did get the Vindicator to fire a second time with the Master of the Forge, but it was taken out for good in turn 4. After that it was all down hill.
I'm thinking of switching out some of my armoured units for Sternguard and an extra ten tactical marines. But what do you folks think?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/12 07:32:40
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Well, the list looks not bad. But at a larger pt level its better to spam some units and not to take a bit of everything.
The HQ is questionable. A MotF with conversion beamer is fine, however a Chapter Master with Honour Guard is a point sink that is not worth the points.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 01:49:25
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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If you do take the Honor Guard, I'd suggest having a Librarian with them for Force Dome (5++). It's not the best protection against enemy IC's, but it's something, and it's all Marines have. That would, unfortunatly, preclude taking the MoF, so if you're fond of him and the "extra" elite slot, then the previous poster has a good point about them being over-spendy, the Honor Guard die so easily against their preferred enemy. It's a rare IC that isn't carrying at least a powersword. So, without the Librarian (and sometimes even with), they run the risk of being slaughtered by an enemy character with a Powersword that strikes at I6 or greater, no matter how advantageous their charge.
Also, your two Heavy Weapons are Rocket Launchers. Since they aren't transported, maybe switch those out for a Lascannon and Plasma Cannon. That'll give you some more potency from your firebase (assuming you combat squad, if not, ignore, the RL is free and useful). I'd also suggest replacing the Assault Cannon on your Terminators with a Cyclone Missile Launcher. That alone will replace the ML shots from the Tacs, and for the same price. I'd also mix at least one Hammernator in with the Assault Squad. If they take a Lascannon shot from downrange, guess who gets to take it?
If you do take the Plasma Cannon, maybe think about changing the Plasmagun in Tac 1 to a Meltagun. It's less points, has good A-V, melts marines only a little slower (1 shot), and can be used on the charge with the Powersword Sarge.
And lastly, if you find the points, extra bikers (and a second meltagun) will keep your Bike squad in the game longer, giving them a more realistic chance to get in close with tanks and use those meltas. As they are, they can be useful, but perhaps unreliable. I've been burned by a bike squad getting shot on the first turn, then falling back 3D6 (18" is off the board, even in Spearhead deployment, usually). A squad of three will possibly run after just 1 casualty.
Just a few of my thoughts, and btw, sometimes, typos are comedy gold, from now on, I shall forever refer to them as "METAL BOMBS!!!!"
Happy hunting!
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 02:08:36
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Does having one Term w/ TH/SS in the squad let you use his invulnerable save? I thought you used majority save, and since there isn't a majority save that would work against lascannon, no save would be taken?
Sorry guys, I'm fairly new to this! Thanks for the help
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 02:51:55
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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All Terminators have a 5+ invulnerable save. The Storm Shield just improves it from 5+ to 3+. All Assault Terminators should be armed with TH/SS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 02:57:20
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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No, it's wound allocation. When you take a wound to a squad, you choose which model it goes to, so say you take 1 lascannon round and 6 bolter rounds to the squad of 4LC/1THSS. You assign the lascannon wound first, placing it on the TH/SS, getting his 3++ against it, then one bolter round each to the LC's for 2+ armor, and then the two extra to whoever.
Nob Bikers do this massively, and it's worse because those are multi-wound models. This technique is really just a loadout designed to use the rules normally. If you take two Lascannon shots, one of them has to go on a LC Termie, forcing that 5++ save that fails so often.
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 03:46:07
Subject: Re:2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ok here goes:
Your army is really really all over the place... It is better to have units dedicated at one thing instead of a "jack of all trades" like you have.
Without going into much more detail about what in your list needs to go... here is what I would do:
HQ:
Space Marine Captain:
+Term Armour
+ Add Pair of Lightning Claws
(This will allow your bikes to be taken as Troops so long as they number 5 or more)
HQ:
Chaplain Cassius
*Has Combi Flamer, and Bolter will wound on 2+ no matter what*
*Squad he is attached to is Fearless, and his squad on the charge re-rolls all failed to hit rolls*
*Attach both characters to your Termi Squad in the Land Raider. The Chaplain
Troops:
Tac Squad x10
+Flamer
+Heavy Bolter
+Power Fist
Troops:
Tac Squad x10
+Flamer
+Heavy Bolter
+Power Fist
Troops:
Tac Squad x10
+Flamer
+Heavy Bolter
+Power Fist
Troops:
Space Marine Bikes x4
+Melta Gun x2
+Space Marine Attack Bike
+Multi-Melta
ELITES:
Term Assault Squad x6
+Thunder Hammer and Storm Shields for all
+Land Raider Crusader transport
Dreadnought x1
+Plasma Cannon
+Twin Linked Autocannon
Dreadnought x1
+Plasma Cannon
+twin Linked Autocannon
Tactics:
Use the Dreads to provide range cover fire for your Land Raider as you run it straight at something that needs to die. Your troops deploy in cover and shoot shoot shoot at that infantry! Use your bikes to hunt enemy armour, they will excell at this task.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/13 03:52:47
Subject: Re:2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine
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You're running a bit of a mish-mash of things, and that's why the list didn't work out so well.
You only really need one HQ in this. I'd say either give the MoF a conversion beamer and drop the captain, or turn the captain in to a termy chaplain and run him with the assault terminators.
You need more troops. Get another tac squad, give all tac squads multi-meltas and flamers and put them in a rhino. Taking the cheap special weapons is really the best option as it gives a taste of anti-armour and anti-horde. Keep them in the rhinos because troops are just easily killable but unless you are tabling your enemy, you need them to win games.
Drop the space marine bikers, they don't have much of a place in here.
And finally, try to turn all of your dreadnoughts in to normal dreads with multi-meltas and dccws w/flamers. Extra armor is good if you have the points left over.
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Gray Crusaders - 1500 points strong |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/17 17:33:43
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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Thanks for the replies. I shall give it a little thought and come back with a new list with which to crush my foes. Some of the stuff may take some stuff to try out, since I simply don't have the models and will need to buy or convert existing stuff. Other bits...we shall see.
A lot of this list was trying bits out, hence the mismash. I got holdof a box of what I was told was bits...which contained two TechMarines, ten Terminators, about fourty tactical marines, several characters, five bikes, a Dreadnaught and a freakin Land Raider. So this list was basically trying out all my new toys.
And yeah, when I do typos they're usually good ones. Curse my inability to spell and my lack of actual caring enough to use a spellcheck. Curse it I say!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/17 17:47:18
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle
Tunbridge Wells, Kent, UK
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Switching out for Sternguard and more Troops sounds good. It's what I've chosen to do, I now have 3 10 man tactical squads in my 1000 pts army because special weapons are cheapest with them and you need them to hold objectives. Try to get Pedro Kantor in with your Sternguard and whack them in a transport of some sort.
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Holy Purging Heretic Smiting Fists of Vengeance and Justice 1000 pts
W : D : L
0 : 0 : 0 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 11:15:16
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Fully-charged Electropriest
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OK, here's an idea I've been considering. I'm thinking of switching out the Chapter Master an Honour Guard for a Captain and Command Squad, with the command squad armed with Storm Shields and Lighting Claws. It's expensive, but between feel no pain and the invulnerable save it's also extremely durable.
Opinions?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/04/18 12:31:03
Subject: 2000 Point Space Marine list...needs work.
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Give one of the Dreadnoughts a Lascannon and a Missile launcher, then keep it at the back.
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