Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's a Dire Avenger army i want looked at.... what really weaknesses do you see.... feed back appreciated....

HQ-440
Asurmen
Eldrad
Troop- 951
317- Dire Avengers (10),exarch, bladestorm, dual cats
Waveserpent, brightlance, hull shuriken cannon, VE

317- Dire Avengers (10),exarch, bladestorm, dual cats
Waveserpent, brightlance, hull shuriken cannon, VE

317- Dire Avengers (10),exarch, bladestorm, dual cats
Waveserpent, brightlance, hull shuriken cannon, VE

Heavy Support- 75
75- War Walker, Starcannan, scatter laser

What, exactly, is asurmen doing? Making a spearhead assault force? Making one squad fearless?

Id just like to add that one squad wont need the bladestorm power as Asurmen is a Dire Avenger Exarch in all respects with both exarch powers. The 17pts your spending on the exarch & dual cats upgrades (giving you an addition 2 shots) when youve already got asurmen to provde the powers could simply be a waste of points.

You have got very limited Anti-tank. Specifically three TL-bright lances. Vectored engines, on that premise, become useless as you'll rarely be going fast enough to get imbolilised-then-destroyed to make use of the VE's.
Why you have bought VE's and not spirit stones is beyound me. I suggest getting spirit stones (when you do get shot, still being able to move (or fast-move) is very useful).

The hull shuriken cannon wont be used that often as it isnt a defensive weapon and I assume being able to move 12" to get good beads on vehicles/moving out of charge range etc will be more useful with your very limited forces.

Swap out that lone war-walker for a;

Prism
3x Warwalker squad (with shuriken cannon)
Points to go on a jetlock council squad
points to go on more dire avengers.
points towards a stronger war-walker squad.

Removing the shuriken cannon, VE's and one exarch with his bladestorm power & dual-cats will net you 107. After you buy 3xspirit stones you have 77 points. That could combine with the 75 from the war-walkers to get you a minimal 3-4man jetlock squad. Or it could get you a Fire prism + holofield or it could get you a stronger & better equipped war-walker team. (Its wise not to mix weapon loadouts)

Ok, if youre taking asurmen, you dont need an exarch in one of the squads. save points.

youre spending an awful lot of points (almost 1/3) on characters. Id lose one. eldrad adds a lot to the army. Asurmen not so much. you dont really need that combat power, do you? Id say with fortune doom and guide, as well as redeploy, eldrad adds way more power to the list than asurmen.

you dont need vectored angines anymore as moving 12" and getting immobilised doesnt kill you.

vectored angines and lances are both expensive and mutualy exclusive. if you move fast to make the engines useful, youve wasted the lance points. if you move slow to use the lance, youve wasted the engine points.

hull shuricannons cant be used if youre shooting the lance and have moved > 6". can be lost.

warwalker has poor weapon choices. anti TEQ and anti horde, bipolar. pick 2 of the same weapon.

do you only want avengers in the army?

your anti tank is lacking. trading 3 lance shots with other tanks will see you lose. either dragons, or prisms to support the serpents.

losing asurman and the walker can get you:
2 prisms with holofields.
dragons and serpent with lances
more war walkers.

having a lot of walkers will require eldrad to be near them to guide and fortune, perhaps changing the army dynamic.

Gah, clicked quote instead of edit...

You are spending waaaay to many points in those wave serpents. You could do alot better by making all the wave serpents lose the hull shuriken cannon and the vectored engines. Those points could go into a fire prism (get rid of the one warwalker) or even two prisms. Alternatively, you could try to add a seer council as well, that asurmen would kick butt leading, along with eldrad. Basically, this will be a standard-ish mech list, where you don't really want the dire avengers doing anything other than flying around and scoring, and asurmen gets it on with eldrad and a hard unit of warlocks in another serpent.

so..

Eldrad
Seer Council in Serpent

Asurmen

5 DA in Serpents
5 DA in Serpents
5 DA in Serpents

Fire Prism
Fire Prism

The more vehicles you have flying around, the harder it will be for the enemy to take any of them out easily. The Dire Avengers are too fragile to stand up to the kind of hate asurmen will find himself in, but the warlocks will help out quite a bit. I would use the above as a core and adjust as necessary.

You might consider taking 3 walkers and giving them Missile Launchers. Then you could deal with tanks.

ixlar wrote:You might consider taking 3 walkers and giving them Missile Launchers. Then you could deal with tanks.

Maybe not, because as soon as your opponent brings AV14 (which he probably will) you're screwed. Just use Fireprisms to do AT, and they are pretty good at anti-horde too. Kind of like the Eldar equivalent of a Hammerhead(except better ).

Just go with stones and cannons on the 3 WS... that saves you 165 points dump the walker that gives you 240... lo and behold two naked prisms...

That gets you 1 TL BS4 S10 AP1 shot or good hoard control with two large templates.

good suggestions.....
i will have a look into this
thanks for all the help

DAaddict wrote:Just go with stones and cannons on the 3 WS... that saves you 165 points dump the walker that gives you 240... lo and behold two naked prisms...

That gets you 1 TL BS4 S10 AP1 shot or good hoard control with two large templates.

That is another good way to greatly enhance this list.

IF you are set on asurmen (as it seems with the heavy DA theme), you can drop eldrad down to a cheaper farseer, and I would suggest trading out all the exarchs for shimmershield, defend, bladestorm (except the one that asurmen tags along with, just give that one SS). It may seem like a heavy points investment, but with such a small army, and with so few scoring units, the extra price really helps keep the avengers alive in assault. Support them with the farseer's fortune and a doom on the other unit, and DAs can flip a combat over in their favor against all but the nastiest, hardest units out there. Asurmen tips it further (not truly worth his pts, IMO, but he is fluffy, and will add a decent amount in your force).

I also agree on fitting 2 prisms in here. They are disappointingly good for their price.

Keep brightlances on atleast two of those serpents. Fire prism are always generally better at dealing with heavy infantry. They simply can deal armor aswell. Equip the third serpent as a gunboat.

Trimming off the useless upgrades on the serpents along with any other extra bits should allow you to change that war-walker to a prism.. If you drop eldrad down to a cheaper farseer you could well have enough points spare for a second prism. That would sort you out fine.

Actually, Fire Prisms really only fail against bright lances at AV14, and against AV14, you just link the beams. S10 AP1 with a re-roll is bad news.

the only real thing that stops me from adding two prisms in here is the fact that they retail at 50$ and i haven't seen them much lower as of yet.......

here is a slightly different list.... have a look

HQ-
eldrad

Troop-
10 Dire avenger (exarch, shimershield, defend, bladestorm) w/ wave serpent w/ bright lance

10 Dire avenger (exarch, shimershield, defend, bladestorm) w/ wave serpent w/ bright lance


Fast-
2 vypers w/ EML

Heavy Support-
3 war walkers w/ EMLs (or Bright lances)

eldrad stays with the war walkers for guide or will advance with the dire avengers depending on who im playing, the dire avengers move about laying fire on the enemy. the war walkers provide fire support and anti-tank as needed and the bright lances on the wave serpent for anything really scary i.e. AV 14....and the vypers just provides support where needed (anti-infantry/ light vehicles)

what do you think..... am i using to many EMLs

will your friends or tournaments let you use Eldrad?

if they don't, i would drop him for a normal farseer, i know a lot of tournaments don't allow special characters, and he is a lot of points if all you want is guide for the walkers

with that and dropping the vypers you may be able to get a third/fourth DA squad

i think something like this might be what you're looking for?

Farseer - 75
-Guide

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

War Walkers (3) - 210
-ELMs

all that would leave you at 1498, the dire avengers are the same setup you had, shimmershield and all the powers

How about:

Farseer - 75
-Guide

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

Dire Avengers (9 w/ Exarch) - 322
Wave Serpent
-Bright Lance
-Spirit Stones

I don't know how many points it is but you could have a Wraithlord and some Wraithguard instead of the DA squad.


War Walkers (3) - 210
-ELMs

Eldrad and Asurmen just won't work, to many points. I would definetially PW/SS/Defend all of your DA's. A Fortune/Doom seer is all you need + Asurmen is you REALLY want, but he is a lot of points. I say run shuriken cannon Waveserpents and find a way to convert Fireprisms, or go with the list above me.

HQ-
eldrad

Troop-
10 Dire avenger (exarch, shimershield, defend, bladestorm) w/ wave serpent w/ bright lance

10 Dire avenger (exarch, shimershield, defend, bladestorm) w/ wave serpent w/ bright lance


Fast-
2 vypers w/ EML

Heavy Support-
3 war walkers w/ EMLs (or Bright lances)

I'd give the War Walkers scatter lasers as the Serpents already have twin-linked bright lances.
In games with objective, the Dire Avengers should stay inside the transports until the endgame.
The army looks a bit light on troops but it could work.

I'd drop the Vypers and take 10 plain Dire Avengers without an Exarch. Then you could possibly an a Storm Guardian squad with 2 flamers mounted in a Serpent.