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So I have a chance to pickup some stock Leman Russ Battle Tanks on the cheap (new and unassembled) and what I am wondering is if I even want them.

The list (or one of the three actually) that I am working on for the new book is entirely mechanized, lots of veterans in chimeras. The core of the list looks like this:

1x CHQ w' master of the fleet, astropath and Chimera and at least 2 to 4x meltaguns

3x Veteran squad in Chimera 3x meltaguns each

2x Veteran squad in Chimera 3x plasmaguns each

1x Veteran squad in Chimera 3x flamers

This leaves me with 600 some odd points to play with in a 1750 point list. The basic thought for what to do with the remaining points is that I'd like a good long range fire base that has the option of being held in reserve (along with the rest of the army) in missions where I don't get the first turn and then be able to move onto the table with guns blazing on turn two and hopefully knock out a few targets before the Chimeras get into place to unload special weapons fire on things and also possibly draw some fire from the Chimeras (which armor 14 tends to absorb nicely).

So this means that whatever I take to fill the 600 or so points needs to:

1. Be able to move and still fire so griffons and barrage only tanks are out.

2. Have range to hit things after having moved 6" onto my board edge so 36" range minimum for whatever else I take.

3. Be scary enough to actually make shooting at it vs. shooting at the chimeras a difficult decision for my opponents and

4. Be tough enough to actually take some shooting.

After considering all of the above I am thinking that the stock LRBT would fill the above role quite well. It has a Str 8 gun that is ap. 3 and rolls 2d6 pick the highest for armor pen so it can't really be ignored, has a 72" range so it should be able to hit most everything even from the back of my long table edge, and is armor 14 so it can only be reliably taken out through close range melta gun fire which hopefully the chimeras can intercept.

So this is where you guys come in. What are your thought on the LRBT in this type of list, is it worth it or should I stick with one of the other variants? Is the old standby of the Imperial Guard even worth using in this brave new world of much more specialized Leman Russ variants? And if I do take it what type of weapons load out, no sponsons, triple heavy bolters, or the now humble lascannon (I am pretty light on long range anti tank and if I move every turn I can still fire a lascannon and battle cannon)?

Edit: I have also thought about Chimeras with psychic choirs in this capacity but they are only armor 12, less range, lower AP and will ocassionally fail psychic tests. They are however, higher strength and a bit more flexible since they can do the leadership thing.

First off, AFAIK all of the Russ variants, Demolisher excluded, require you to get a generic Russ and convert the main gun. You might as well buy 'em cheap now. Course, I'm not following the IG rumours religously, so they may have already announced new Russ kits.

I would imagine that LRBT would till be nice as generalist tanks. Big blast, ordnance, high strength, long range, and relatively low AP will be nice against all things. And, as an added bonus, it doesn't tower over everything else (poor, poor Defiler, why won't you duck?).

LRBT nekkid is still a great value.

It's cheap (compared to other tanks), it insta kills most infantry, it ignores most armor saves, has great range and is iconic of IG.

There are some things you want to consider tho.

LR Eradicator is also a great buy, especially if your army is lacking in the "ignores cover" weapons. It plays like an old Hellhound on steroids and will help A LOT against horde armies (read: Orks).

LR Demolisher. Still rather cheap (nekkid) and S10 ap2 ordnance gives some nice advantages over the stock Russ. It ignores FNP (yes the battlecannon ignores FNP on T4 targets as well), it insta kills T5, it is a great tank hunter, and it can take out 2+ saves. IMO the LRD is a hammer, and it turns all of your problems into nails

Then of course, there is the big daddy. The LRExec. 230 points buys you a tank that can take on almost anything (aside from AV14). It's expensive, but you get what you pay for.


You could take 4 nekkid LRBT for 600 points, or you could take 3 tanks and put some ap2 pie in the mix (and some cover ignoring ordnance). Personally, I think IG needs ap2 ordnance to handle certain targets, and ignoring cover against Orks/IG is huge.

BoxANT wrote:LRBT nekkid is still a great value.

It's cheap (compared to other tanks), it insta kills most infantry, it ignores most armor saves, has great range and is iconic of IG.

There are some things you want to consider tho.

LR Eradicator is also a great buy, especially if your army is lacking in the "ignores cover" weapons. It plays like an old Hellhound on steroids and will help A LOT against horde armies (read: Orks).

LR Demolisher. Still rather cheap (nekkid) and S10 ap2 ordnance gives some nice advantages over the stock Russ. It ignores FNP (yes the battlecannon ignores FNP on T4 targets as well), it insta kills T5, it is a great tank hunter, and it can take out 2+ saves. IMO the LRD is a hammer, and it turns all of your problems into nails

Then of course, there is the big daddy. The LRExec. 230 points buys you a tank that can take on almost anything (aside from AV14). It's expensive, but you get what you pay for.


You could take 4 nekkid LRBT for 600 points, or you could take 3 tanks and put some ap2 pie in the mix (and some cover ignoring ordnance). Personally, I think IG needs ap2 ordnance to handle certain targets, and ignoring cover against Orks/IG is huge.

this is good advice

I'm actually looking at a list with both an Executioner and a Demolisher, both bolstered by single ablative naked Russes. They're big points sinks, but wildeyedjester has claimed to have good luck with the Executioner/Ablative Russ combo. I'm hoping to get to try the list out soon.

So perhaps a few LRBTs with no sponsons then? That also leaves me with about 150 points to play around with on the rest of the list which will likely go towards some heavy weapons in the veteran squads for the games where it isn't going to be profitable to send them hurtling off towards the enemy army (Orks etc. that don't have a lot of individual 'hard' threats that can profitably be killed by vet squads). It'll also give them something worthwhile to do when their ride gets busted before they get close to where the action is.

So assuming I can still pick them up on the cheap this weekend I will probably go ahead and do it.

The biggest problem, IMO, with the standard LRBT, is that one of its biggest benefits - it's range - is largely irrelevant in a game where most deployments can be made within 36" of the opponent.

If I could play turns -2, -1, and 0, and pound my opponent with those 72" shots as they moved towards their deployment zone, I'd not take anything but LRBTs. But, with the size of the boards, I don't know what benefit I get from that when my opponent is most likely going to be within 24" in a turn or two anyway.

Redbeard wrote:The biggest problem, IMO, with the standard LRBT, is that one of its biggest benefits - it's range - is largely irrelevant in a game where most deployments can be made within 36" of the opponent.

If I could play turns -2, -1, and 0, and pound my opponent with those 72" shots as they moved towards their deployment zone, I'd not take anything but LRBTs. But, with the size of the boards, I don't know what benefit I get from that when my opponent is most likely going to be within 24" in a turn or two anyway.

I see the 36" range of the Eradicator as a big (though not huge) drawback. You can't shoot the lascannons / railguns, but they can shoot you.

I think the viability of all of the short-ranged tanks depends on the amount of mobility and long-ranged artilery you have in your army. I also think a lot of people aren't thinking sponsons through properly. It's nearly impossible to get Hull Down and still have a full field of fire for your sponsons.

I'll test the variants out, and am open to changing my mind, but for now I plan to stick to standard 150 point Russes. I may possibly upgrade to Camo netting, but I see no need to increase the cost of a tank without increasing its staying power.

A quick comment about weapon range. One of the main things that I am still liking about the LRBT is the 72" range. Yes, I understand that 36" is usually enough. However, on missions where I don't go first and choose to have most or all of my units start in reserves the ability to move onto the table and be able to immediately shoot at most any target of my choice is pretty big. This is simply not an option for eradicators, executioners, and demolishers.

take 1 Demolisher, 2 Standard. can use the points to either make one Commander Pask or add sponsons/lascannons.

Artillery is not bad to have, Medusas in cover can be the most hard hitting gun in the game at decent range with both shell options. though, they are chimera chassis.


I would personally reccomend just spamming Chimera chassis at the lower point games with Medusas to support them. They are a lot cheaper than russes and bring the most deadly firepower to your force. Also, you can take 4 Medusas with upgrades and still allow a little more points to upgrade your commander's verteran squads to heavy weapons (BS 4 heavy guns is amazing)

Final note, I would divy up the special weapons so each squad has one of each. You don't want to lose all your meltas at once when they get get their transport popped then gunned down in one turn. Also, why do you have the astropath?

The one thing I don't like about the standard Russ is that, as it tries to be a jack-of-all-trades tank, it doesn't necessarily excel at anything.

It has a template for hordes, but doesn't ignore cover.
Its kills 3+ but not 2+, and T4 but not T5.
It sucks against all but light vehicles.

Not ignoring cover makes it less-than-amazing against orks, nids, and the like, who will jump every terrain piece they can on their way to your lines. Not being able to touch 2+ saves or high AV vehicles restricts it to light transports, which it still usually scatters and misses, leaving it less-than amazing at killing mech marines and tanks.

If you want a tank that you can rely on to do several things lackluster, then thats fine, but its been my experience that lists are more powerful when you take units specialized for certain niches which they are VERY good at.

The plasma russ is the best against marines. Hands down. It ignores all armor and has enough blasts to inflict multiple wounds.

The Eradicator is the best against hordes. They die on 2+, and it doesn't care where they are.

Demolisher with melta sponsons (and maybe Pask) is your reliable tank-killer, though plasma sponson demolishers can probably compete somewhat with the Executioner.

Exterminator is the best transport killer, and is, imo, an excellent 2nd tank for a squadron unless you're using russes for tank-busting (which you probably shouldn't be - meltas are far better at it for less points). It dishes out enough medium-strength shots at whatever the exec or eradicator is shooting to supplement it regardless of cover saves or power armor. It's also cheaper, so it's a good place to put those squadron weapon destroyed and shaken / stunned results.

So, to sum up, decide what you need russes to do to bolster your list the most - either kill hordes, marines, or vehicles - and choose it that way.

Nenya97 wrote:

Final note, I would divy up the special weapons so each squad has one of each. You don't want to lose all your meltas at once when they get get their transport popped then gunned down in one turn. Also, why do you have the astropath?

Each squad has three specials, there's actually no room in the list, as is, for any more specials.

As for the astropath the plan is for missions where I don't get the first turn or for missions where my oponent starts with nothing on the table (drop pods and demons) I will start the entire army in reserves and use the astropath to make sure that I get the majority of my army at once and the master of the fleet to make sure my opponent's army dribbles in.

My advice would be whatever you take russ wise, take two. Reasoning is I've found that russes have a reputation as being scary (especially with the MEQs) and so attrack fire. Taking two quadrouples the chance of firing the gun (crazy maths i know but that's my head - twice as many means the enemy have to work twice as hard to kill and you're paking twice the firepower).

I know someones going to slate that and give the correct odds Feel free!

actually it becomes somewhat easier to kill them when you take them in sqaudrons because they can die on glancing table and are killed on a 4+ on pen table.

squadrons don't lower your chances of dying... I do believe any assaults on a tank squadron are based on the AV of the tank being assaulted, so virtually, you could have a standard russ, then a demolisher, which has higher rear armor, and the LRBT would be considered RAV11 (if the Demolisher was assaulted) and you could opt to put the damage on the standard one, then in your turn, move the tank a little, and obliterate all your assaulters, hoping nothing scatters back on you. if it was a punisher being assaulted, which in my case will most likely BE the case, I'd use the Lumbering Behemoth rule to my advantage with 29-32 shots and BS4(w/ Pask, assuming)

I think stock LRBT's are pretty awesome. At 150 points, they're going to take out a lot of stuff before they get killed. Yeah there's a lot they can't do, but for sheer firepower alone, you can't beat the points.

Also keep in mind they can have plasma sponsons now and they're still below 200 points. Plasma sponsons will take down what the main gun won't, and they can shoot along with the main gun if the tank doesn't move.