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Callidus assassin hops out and uses her neural shredder vs. Orks. What is their leadership to determine the roll needed to wound? Does the Mob rule apply or their base leadership.

Thanks

This is still a debated issue. But the Mob rule of the Orks state: "Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their Leadership value."

Note it says it (Mob rule) changes the actual Leadership value, no where in the rule does it mention anything about making Leadership tests of any type. So, by RAW the LD value of the orks are now equal to the number of Orks in their unit or their own LD depending on which one the player chooses to use (also in the rule).

Some people would like to argue that the unit has the new LD value and not the orks, but the RB does not support this stance as only a value (model characteristic) are only ever something an individual model has, and no where does any book, RB or either, ever state a unit that has a LD value or Str value, etc...This is also supported in the Ork codex which explains that the Weirdboy also uses the number of orks in the mob for their LD as well even when making psychic tests.

Sorry for the long answer, this one is simply not an easy "yes, no" type.

The same situation arises with the use of Mind War.
However I think the answer has always been that no characteristic other than Attacks can be higher than 10. When the Orks are numbered 11 they become fearless yet there Ld value remains at 10. So a nueral Shredder would need a 6 to wound, and a Farseer using Mind War would have to role their Ld 10 against an Orks Ld10.

An Ork weirdboy can't automatically pass a psychic test if he has 12 Orks around him. 1+1 & 6+6 is still a perils and 11 is still a fail. His Ld value can't be higher than 10.

It's just that when the Orks number more than 10 they become fearless.

Leadership is Capped at 10. Even if you had a 32 Man Squad, their Leadership for ALL effects is 10. 10 is the maximum any statistic except attacks and Armour Value may go.

The only time you cant claim Ld 10 IIRC is when something Specifically states "Your leadership becomes X" like Clulexus Assassins or Pariahs do

I'm a regular user of my favorite lady, the Callidus assassin. IMO, the Orks are LD 10 if the Mob rule is in effect.

don_mondo wrote:I'm a regular user of my favorite lady, the Callidus assassin. IMO, the Orks are LD 10 if the Mob rule is in effect.

Unless the mob is between 1 and 9

And it had been previously clarified a lot by GW (not that it means anything nowadays) that things that fix your LD at a certain number overrides the Mob Rule.

Ealiom wrote:The same situation arises with the use of Mind War.

I would disagree with this. Mind War is used against a single model. The Ork Mob Rule only applies to groups of Orks taking leadership tests.

pakman wrote:

Ealiom wrote:The same situation arises with the use of Mind War.

I would disagree with this. Mind War is used against a single model. The Ork Mob Rule only applies to groups of Orks taking leadership tests.

Actually, the rule says nothing whatsoever about Leadership tests:

padixon wrote:But the Mob rule of the Orks state: "Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their Leadership value."

Just that they can substitute the number of Orks for the Leadership value. Not "only when taking leadership tests," but "always."

Ealiom wrote:The same situation arises with the use of Mind War.
However I think the answer has always been that no characteristic other than Attacks can be higher than 10. When the Orks are numbered 11 they become fearless yet there Ld value remains at 10. So a nueral Shredder would need a 6 to wound, and a Farseer using Mind War would have to role their Ld 10 against an Orks Ld10.

An Ork weirdboy can't automatically pass a psychic test if he has 12 Orks around him. 1+1 & 6+6 is still a perils and 11 is still a fail. His Ld value can't be higher than 10.

It's just that when the Orks number more than 10 they become fearless.

Page 6 of the BRB limits characteristics to 10. No special rule or wargear modifier can raise it higher.

pakman wrote:I would disagree with this. Mind War is used against a single model. The Ork Mob Rule only applies to groups of Orks taking leadership tests.

padixon wrote:This is still a debated issue. But the Mob rule of the Orks state: "Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in their mob for their Leadership value."

Note it says it (Mob rule) changes the actual Leadership value, no where in the rule does it mention anything about making Leadership tests of any type. So, by RAW the LD value of the orks are now equal to the number of Orks in their unit or their own LD depending on which one the player chooses to use (also in the rule).

Some people would like to argue that the unit has the new LD value and not the orks, but the RB does not support this stance as only a value (model characteristic) are only ever something an individual model has, and no where does any book, RB or either, ever state a unit that has a LD value or Str value, etc...This is also supported in the Ork codex which explains that the Weirdboy also uses the number of orks in the mob for their LD as well even when making psychic tests.

Sorry for the long answer, this one is simply not an easy "yes, no" type.

i dont need to add anything to this