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Ok, so I see now that that in 5ed that if you play Ork you will be fielding (a lot) of boyz. Now reading the Eldar codex I am in a constant bind of what units / unit combination's will be best to compete (and possible win) against these typical setups?

Also since i believe Boyz are 6 points then for a max squad of we that will be (180) points, and I will say three squads of that for all together (540) points. I was thinking how about fielding 4 squads of 15 Guardians with a Scatter Laser for (540) points or 4 squads of 15 Storm Squad Guardians with 2x flamers for (528) points, but the real question is will this (for what its worth) assist in victory over the mobs or just making my eminent downfall take longer??? (60 Guardians vs. 90 Boyz, how the odds lol )

What your forgetting is that basically everyone who plays orks doesn't just take 30 boyz its almost always 29 boyz and 1 nob with a power klaw and a bosspole. That ups the price of three mobs to 660 points, i dont play eldar, so i don't know how much the extra 120 will help, but im sure it counts for something.

They also usually have 3 rokkits in the mob, putting the total up to 250pts per mob.

Guardians are really terrible at killing orks. Thier basic guns are worse than the orks, they have lower toughness and less Ld. What will happen is the orks will just shoot you to death with 54 S4 AP5, and even though their BS is bad, your toughness and saves are worse. Storm Guardians are particularly bad because they have no ranged weapons to speak of and will have the crap beaten out of them in combat.

Your best bet for killing big mobs of orks is either one or two squads of dire avengers bladestorming then charging, striking scorpions (even though they cost more they have enough S4 attacks to put enough wounds on the orks so they are subject to 'no retreat') or lots of war walkers with dual scatter lazers. If you get off a good charge with harlequins then they may do well, but more likely they will just get overwhelmed. Swooping Hawks with skyleap can also put a serious dent into ork mobs, but are best used to hit things hidding at the back, like mobs of lootas.

Actually, bladestorm is deceptively bad. You lose shot bladestorming. Your best bet is to get some template weapons. Storm guardians in a waveserpent with a Destructor Warlock. Fire Prisms (especially if you know you're fighting a straight horde army) that put down pie plates that ignore Ork armor. Possibly War Walkers with EMLs. Things of that nature.

Actually i rarely see anyone with 3 rokkits, including myself, what i see more often, is 2 big shootas and a rokkit, but if they're cc boyz there are almost never any heavy weapons. And you probably still get an armor save because unless its a heavy weapon boyz have S4 AP6. Also, ork armor saves are six, so unless they have an ap- weapon it ignores armor, but I don't know eldar, so i don't know what stats they have.

EDIT: also, as an ork player flamers are not your friend, on a good shot you can hit 6 or 7 boyz.

you just need some heavy weapons, like a fire prism, or some EMLs war walkers to throw down some massive hate

avoid the mobs with your infantry they will just get outnumbered, unless you're going to soften up a mob before attacking with striking scorpions

three guardian squads of ten men each with scatter lasers, a decent CC unit like harlies or scorpions (harlies might be better if you're hoofing it, and get some nasty boom booms with the extra points, war walkers are very cheap on points considering their payload, plasma rockets will drop pinning on them, not bad with their bad ld scores

if the orcs are fielding that many heavy weapons with their BS 2 it's going to hurt them more than it hurts you, cause those are points better spent elsewhere

Guardians are complete failure versus orks.

12" range equals you are getting assaulted if you fired weapon.

Avengers bladestorm on own is slightly weak, but combined with guide and doom it is a killer squad. Plus, they have 18" range.

If you're already running a Bike Mounted Seer Council it's not that many more points to up the Destructor count. Dropping 3 Heavy Flamer templates is never a bad thing when you're playing Orks. Of course you have to survive the ensuing close combat as well, but with re-rollable saves you should be ok.

Eldar generally aren't at their best trying to kill hordes of boyz, and a lot of the effectiveness comes from your on-table tactics. If you're rolling with a solid amount of transports and other fast stuff you can sort of minimize the green tide my spreading out and not allowing him to roll all the boyz straight forward. Divide and conquer is your only real bet.

So here is a scenario, the orc boys WILL have a nob w/ bosspole because i heard their leadership is lacking. Say im fielding a Farseer with Mindwar and a squad of 5 pathfinders, will targeting the Nob with Mindwar then fire 5 pinning shot into the leaderless squad be worth it? However the odds are would a successful pin allow me to forget that mob for say a turn and concentrate better on objectives or higher priority targets, or is that simply a waste?

This has worked for me one hundred percent of the time with Eldar versus Ork Hordes.

I have funnelled them to where I want them by not deploying anything, but leaving them in reserve. This cause most to spread out and then I start with a flank and eat up the formation until I get to the middle.

I use a seer council with four destructors, dire avengers, and three fire prisms to put the hurt on them. There is nothing like a mob of thirty with doom on them that gets hit with a bunch of flamers up close then charged by a seer council of eight guys. It goes bad after combat resolution.

The goal is to have some stay at far range fire power that has a strong assault unit in front of it. This causes some Ork players to play cautions which allows more shooting for the opponent. If he comes closer, then he gets tarpitted which slows the guys behind the tarpit down. Then the Fire Prism move off to the side and continue blasting.

So even a Farseer w/ Warlocks on foot is a really great unit to tie up and potentially beat larger units like orks?
Ive heard they do awesome when on jetbikes, but I dont have any so was wondering if all they lack on foot is that mobility?
You can alway try to work it so they end up where you need them, or like a counter charge unit or something right?

What they lack on foot is 3+ save and 4 toughness. Those attributes when comined with fortune, make them the powerhouse that they are.

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:So even a Farseer w/ Warlocks on foot is a really great unit to tie up and potentially beat larger units like orks?
Ive heard they do awesome when on jetbikes, but I dont have any so was wondering if all they lack on foot is that mobility?
You can alway try to work it so they end up where you need them, or like a counter charge unit or something right?

If you;re not going to run them on bikes then you probably want them in a transport. I like them on bikes because the extra movement really allows you to get the most out of the fact that their a primo LR killing unit in HtH as well as a great tarpit. The bikes rules mesh nicely with fortune, and when I'm spending that kind of points on a unit (even 5-6 is pretty pricey) I want to be able to stick them in exactly where needed. You could use them as counter-assault sure, but I think you're giving up a lot of the units flexibility in doing do. I think the Banshees and Harlies are far better than the Seer council in a CA role unless you're specifically in need of a tar pit.