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Quick question that came up during our pyramid league.

Can dreadnoughts get cover saves from having an infantry squad between themselves and the firing unit? (i.e., Can dreadnoughts get cover saves from intervening infantry?) If so, under what conditions would they get a cover save?

They need to be 50% concealed by the intervening infantry from the point of view of the shooting unit. You might be able to pull it off with regular marines, and more likely terminators, but you would have to check case by case.

Well first of all, Dreadnoughts are vehicles so have to be 50% obscured to claim a cover save, not just a little bit like infantry.

Secondly, the question is like "What's in my Pocket?", there just isnt enough data to answer it.

You have to check True Line of sight. If the model can draw LoS so that it can see more than 50% of the dreadnought, then it isnt obscured and wont get a cover save. Since there are so many variables (What unit is shooting, whats the intervening unit, are they on a hill etc) we cannot be sure.

all vehicles and MC only get a cover save if 50% or more is hidden ... only slight difference between the 2 is that vehicles only need to obscure the targeted facing. Its all on page 62 ... so how do you get an eay cover save from infantry? only way i can think is to hide it behind a banner

It might be obscured by Wrathguard

Terminators might also get 50% coverage, especially if the enemy are short ;p

I did not want to give away too much information so as not to prejudice the answers from the forum readers.

The situation is like this: a SM dreadnought behind a squad of tactical space marines.

What's the firing model? How far away is the firer? A carnifex standing three feet away would prolly see more than fifty percent. A guardsman an inch in front of the Marines would see less than 50%.

Aren't banners and such ignored for LoS? Or does TLoS trump that? If it does I may need to make a bunch of personal banners for my HQ's...and add that Khorne banner onto my blue Bloodletters.

RustyKnight wrote:What's the firing model? How far away is the firer? A carnifex standing three feet away would prolly see more than fifty percent. A guardsman an inch in front of the Marines would see less than 50%.

Aren't banners and such ignored for LoS? Or does TLoS trump that? If it does I may need to make a bunch of personal banners for my HQ's...and add that Khorne banner onto my blue Bloodletters.

Banners and other non-body parts are ignored when drawing line of sight TO a model (in other words, you have be able to see a part of the model's body to shoot at it) but the rulebook gives no exemptions for these kinds of things when trying to draw LOS past said model.

So in short, yes a banner (or wings, etc) do block LOS as they physically do if you are trying to draw LOS past the model.

And yes, you can gain in-game advantages through modeling, you always have been able to as long as 40K has been around, only the manner in which these advantages have been gained has changes slightly throughout the years.


But remember, there is nothing in the rules about being able to convert your models. By the RAW we should all be using stock GW miniatures for the game. It is only through the social contract of gamers that we all allow converted models to be used so under that same social contract you shouldn't be shocked when your opponents refuse to play with you when they feel you've abused that unspoken contract in order to gain an in-game advantage.

What's the firing model? How far away is the firer? A carnifex standing three feet away would prolly see more than fifty percent. A guardsman an inch in front of the Marines would see less than 50%.

The dreadnought was approximately 2-2.5 feet away and the firer, a space marine with a lascannon, was on a 1.5" hill. The 'intervening' unit, was the a dreadnought player's tactical squad, right in front of the dread.

There were no banners involved.

If 50% of the model wasn't out of line of sight from the models eyes view then the dreadnought could not gain a cover save.

If the firer had elevation, then there's a good chance that the firer would have less that 50% of the target obscured. But it one of those situations where one needs to break out the laser pointers or periscopes to double check what is and is not visible despite the tactical squad's efforts.

There's enough variability between dreadnought models and marine models that it's really difficult to give a definite answer without recreating the situation and trying to take a picture from the model's perspective.