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I noticed in the listing for the master of ordinance that no template size is listed. I assume that it's the large blast but wonder what other people think?

Oh, and yeah chalk another one up to GW's great editing process!

Oh yeah! Lets all Insult GW even though the rules are clear! It makes us Doubleplusstough!

Perhaps looking at Page 58 Of the rulebook rather than spouting of garbage might help.

page 58 ... "Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordance blast weapons use the large blast marker" gah beaten to it

Those rules are clear?

Daggermaw wrote:Those rules are clear?

Yes...

Ordnance = 5in template, unless otherwise stated, just as "blast"= 3in template unless otherwise stated.

Jack

I mean in the fact that instead of writing in the master of ordinances entry that it uses a large blast template, I'm supposed to look in another book for one sentence in 100 pages of rules, is clear?

Because ordnance have extra rules, that is why.

Large blast, no special armor pen ability
Ordnance, special magical abilities (I encourage you to look in the rule book for it)

Also, you might want to look at barrage, which ordnance also has a bonus for.

Well the entry for the Colossus seems to have no problem writing: Ordnance barrage 1, large blast.

Maybe now you understand my confusion/frustration?

The OP is definitely right. It's a mess!

The weapon never says you use a blast marker. Ordnance weapons still needs to tell you to use a blast marker to have a blast marker (which then will be the 5" one unless it says 3"). The Master of Ordnance Artillery Bombardment doesn't say blast so do not have a blast marker.

In it's scattering rules it refers to "the template". The rulebook tells us a template is the teardrop-shaped Flamer template.

So RAW this weapon does not use a blast marker!

Webbe wrote:The OP is definitely right. It's a mess!

The weapon never says you use a blast marker. Ordnance weapons still needs to tell you to use a blast marker to have a blast marker (which then will be the 5" one unless it says 3"). The Master of Ordnance Artillery Bombardment doesn't say blast so do not have a blast marker.

In it's scattering rules it refers to "the template". The rulebook tells us a template is the teardrop-shaped Flamer template.

So RAW this weapon does not use a blast marker!

Except it's a barrage, and per page 32 "All barrage weapons use blast markers and consequently use the rules for blast weapons".

I'm not saying it's a smart way to write it, but there's no basis for saying there's no blast for this attack.

Pretty sticky. RAI wouldbe large blast.

Sticky? Hardly...

page 58 ... "Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordance blast weapons use the large blast marker" gah beaten to it

page 32 "All barrage weapons use blast markers and consequently use the rules for blast weapons".

Is this an Ordinance Barrage we're talking about here? Yes. Are there any rules that obviate either statement above from the BGB? No.

Just follow the (very unambiguos) rules in the book and you get to the MOO firing a 5" Ordinance Blast template. The fact that the notes in the entry don't specifically mention the template or it's size might seem inconvenient, but it doesn't change the rules even a tiny bit.

He doesn't use a template? Godly MoO lol?

Wow a lot of Bile in this thread.
I'll try and be as nice as possible then.

Firstly, the MoO does not use a "Template" at all, it uses the Large Blast Marker. "Template" has a very specific meaning, which is the tear-drop shaped one used for Flamers and the like.

Secondly, the MoO shot has the type as "Ordnance Barrage". As per page 58 "Unless their profile specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker."

And to address the "Ordnance Barrage isnt Ordnance" quip I have seen, well, it is. It has its own special rules that are used along with the normal Barrage rules. And also, there is no such thing as a "Blast Marker" but rather there is a "Large Blast Marker" and a "Normal Blast Marker" (see page 30) so even though the Barrage Rules say to use a "Blast marker" you still use the correct type according to what weapon it is.

So in conclusion, the MoO uses the Large Blast Marker, plain and simple. Anyone saying otherwise does not have a firm grasp of the rules and should be ignored.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Webbe wrote:The OP is definitely right. It's a mess!

The weapon never says you use a blast marker. Ordnance weapons still needs to tell you to use a blast marker to have a blast marker (which then will be the 5" one unless it says 3"). The Master of Ordnance Artillery Bombardment doesn't say blast so do not have a blast marker.

In it's scattering rules it refers to "the template". The rulebook tells us a template is the teardrop-shaped Flamer template.

So RAW this weapon does not use a blast marker!

Except it's a barrage, and per page 32 "All barrage weapons use blast markers and consequently use the rules for blast weapons".

I'm not saying it's a smart way to write it, but there's no basis for saying there's no blast for this attack.

I agree that that is the way you should read it.
Still, technically Ordnance Barrage is not Barrage any more than Jump Infantry is Infantry.

if you read the lastes post on GW's site, theres an article on there detailing some uses for command squads and the Master of ordinance is specified to use the sats of an earthshaker cannon, so large blast and what ever the S and AP is

heres the link for you that still don't want to believe

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&pIndex=4&aId=13200008&start=5

I understand your intentions, but we all know that GW puts info up on their site to make things look better than they are.

It doesn't matter that the website says it uses the Large Marker, It could say it uses a banana It still wouldn't mean anything. It just so happens that the rules are actually pretty clear on this anyway.

Now I want a "Master of Monkeys" or some such who tosses bananas...

Jack

Modquisition edit: What he meant to say was that he agrees with Gwar, except for the bananas, because that would just be wrong.

[edited by modquisition]

The only thing that matters about rules are rules resources, they are what you follow, that was Gwar's point and it is absolutely correct.

Gwar understands you agree, he just is sleep and rum deprived.

InquisitorFabius wrote:Gwar understands you agree, he just is sleep and rum deprived.

The Inquisitor is Correct. You people should know by now!

I can show you a battle report where the player debarked from a transport and fired a heavy weapon. Does that mean that the rules are wrong and the battle report was right? No. Battle reports (and articles on GW's website) are not rules. If the two disagree, then the rules always take precedence. An article on GW's website does not prove anything nor is it support for your arguments.

Thread being closed temporarily whilsts the old man of Dakka reviews.

EDIT: Thread re-opened, private messages sent to various parties.

Gentlemen, a reminder, Dakka Rule #1 is be polite. Argue the position, not the person, avoid direct attacks and flaming.

something doesn't make sense...
"Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordance blast weapons use the large blast marker"
wouldn't it indicate the normal blast marker if it says ordance blast in the profile and not ordance or ordance large blast? just stating from what you all wrote since I don't have by BRB on me atm (GASP!!!)



-Orkishly

orkishlyorkish wrote:something doesn't make sense...
"Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordance blast weapons use the large blast marker"
wouldn't it indicate the normal blast marker if it says ordance blast in the profile and not ordance or ordance large blast? just stating from what you all wrote since I don't have by BRB on me atm (GASP!!!)



-Orkishly

What the hell are you on about? If a Weapon type is "Ordnance Blast", it uses the large blast template, JUST AS IT SAYS IN THE RULEBOOK. How can you possibly read "Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker" as meaning they use the small one?

Gwar! wrote:

orkishlyorkish wrote:something doesn't make sense...
"Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordance blast weapons use the large blast marker"
wouldn't it indicate the normal blast marker if it says ordance blast in the profile and not ordance or ordance large blast? just stating from what you all wrote since I don't have by BRB on me atm (GASP!!!)



-Orkishly

What the hell are you on about? If a Weapon type is "Ordnance Blast", it uses the large blast template, JUST AS IT SAYS IN THE RULEBOOK. How can you possibly read "Unless their profiles specifies otherwise, all ordnance blast weapons use the large blast marker" as meaning they use the small one?

WHOA CALM DOWN! I never said I don't follow the large blast marker but I was just pointing out the way the wording works is kind of weird.



-Orkishly

No, the wording is not weird. Can you please explain to me how "Ordnance Blast Weapons use the Large Blast marker" is weird wording?