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Hey there guys, here is a batrep from yesterday. I am trying to nail down my ultr-competitive IG list, and Somnicide is still in the 'trying everything' stage with his space marines. He swung by the house and borrowed my roommates dark angels. What happens next is probably the worst string of bad luck I've had in my 7 years of wargaming. But has a happy ending

Here is my list...

CCS 4x melta fleet officer astropath in chimera

overseer + 8 psykers in chimera

overseer + 8 psykers in chimera

veterans 3x meltas in chimera

veterans 3x meltas in chimera

veterans 3x meltas in chimera

banewolf with heavy flamer

leman russ executioner with plasma cannon sponsons

leman russ demolisher with heavy bolter sponsons

3x hydras


Here's his list (Som help me get this right)

pedro

tigerius

10x sternguard 2x combi-meltas in drop pod

10x sternguard 2x lascannons with laserback

dreadnought with multi-melta in drop pod

10x tactical missile flamer in rhino

10x sniper scouts

whirlwind

vindicator



We roll up a 5 objective seize and the 4 corners get objectives, along with one on the left side of the table between the two corners. Dawn of War is the deployment. This is what the table looked like post objective placement.


I won the roll and I see drop pods so I let Som go first.

He deploys his scouts in the forest, easily in reach of a 12" moving banewolf, and another scout unit on an objective on the left side of the table. I don't deploy anything.

Turn 1 space marines

The dreadnought drop pod lands close to my table edge but central. He pops smoke. He combat squads everything, drives his laserback and rhino full steam, move his 2x lascannon sternguard mini devs and the 5 man missile launcher unit and runs them into their firing positions. He moves his vindicator up as far as he can on the right extrme table edge.

Turn 1 IG, my demolisher only manages to move 7" but the executioner makes a full 12" move, the CCS chimera moves 12" as does one of the veteran chimera, right across from the dread. The two other veteran chimeras move 6" on either side of that formation, hoping to light the dread up with spotlights for the hydras. The psychic choirs tucked themselves in behind the russes, and the banewolf went hellbent for leather for the forest with the scouts. The banewolf kills 4 of the 5 scouts, and i didn't bother weaken resolving him thanks to ATSKNF. I finally manage to spotlight the dread after my third and final try, and the hydras kill him.



Turn 2 space marines

he moves his laserback up again, but the rhino parks on an objective with its 5 marine unit. He shoots his whirlwind at my hydras, I think he shakes one. He shoots his laserback at my banewolf and kills it (I will regret that HUGELY later) and his mini devs at a partially exposed (barely) psyker chimera he also shoots his vindicator at the same chimera i make 3 of 3 cover saves (the last good luck i'll have)

Turn 2 IG

I kinda shuffle around a little bit, but not really as I wanted to fire to full effect. I kill a 5man missile combat squad with the executioner. The demolisher blows the twin linked lascannon off of the razorback. i kill 2 of 5 sniper scouts over near the left side objective, I destroy the rhino guarding the objective near his deployment zone. I try to soulstorm the vindicator but fail to hurt it, I weaken resolve the scouts, kill off the lone scout in the bushes, and weapon destroy the drop pod. At this point in the game it looked like I was going to be able to just knock out two of his scoring units a turn, and his ability to kill tanks was really low, and it was bound to be a quick concession.




Turn 3 space marines

The scouts auto-regroup, move and run back into place, the razorback moves cruising speed right up into my face on the right side, the vindicator slips as far forward hugging the table edge to get side shots on russes and hopefully side shots on psykers. Still no sign of the last drop pod. The mini-devs stun the executioner (that was huge) The vindicator is accurate again and shakes a psyker chimera. The whirlwind shoots again at the hydras but doesn't do anything.

Turn 3 IG

Time for me to just go ahead and wrap it up. I crack my knuckles, calm and relaxed, and reach for the tape. I shuttle my chimeras up a little bit to position for later objective acquisition. I throw a soulstorm at the squad of 5 behind the dead rhino and get an ap2 shot, I kill 3 of them with it I think, then I shoot my hydras at them, and finish them off. the rest of my shooting happened to be in transit or shaken/stunned, so I didn't really do anything else. Although i finished off a scoring unit there. I got a strange feeling like that turn was not quite enough.



Turn 4 marines

here comes the drop pod with two special characters and 10 sternguard, I help Som out by reminding him to at least try to land drop pods within 3" of objectives so that they have to kill them for them to score the objective. He does, and scatters towards my tanks, effectively getting a hit near my closest objective. He combat squads and places one special character in each half, and shoots at my chimeras. he crew shakes one, and kills one. The whirlwind shoots at the unit that falls out killing only two after a scatter, but manages to pin them. (start counting the pins now. You'll need both hands) the vinidactor kills a psyker chimera, and the unit falls out, then gets pinned (there's 2) The mini devs shake the executioner, then the 5man squad in the laserback gets out and sets up to charge the other psyker chimera that I had moved ahead of the tank wall. they couldn't hit it.

An excellent turn for the space marines, but looking at the table, it shouldn't really matter, i just clean up that 5 man unit that charged the psyker chimera, take a couple of turns to kill off the new sternguard unit, maybe even one turn will do it.

Turn 4 IG

Meltdown. Only thing I can think of to describe this turn. I move my chimera that was shaken backwards because i need to get out in order to shoot my meltas, I move my CCS chimera over to melta one of the combat squads. So the plan formulated instantly in my head and it seemed pretty easy, put 11 BS4 meltaguns into one of the combat squads, finishing or just about finishing the squad (they wont get cover) Put 2 wounds on the other combat squad with the hydras, move the psykers into range of that squad, but not close enough to get hooded, weaken resolve them, then put the demolisher into the combat squad on my right flank, then accept Somnicide's concession.

I kill a single space marine with 11 meltas, I kill 2 space marines with the hydra battery setting up the weaken resolve, but I fail my psychic test on a 10, then, my demolisher, while shooting at the combat squad scatters its cannon backwards with an 11 roll, landing on my executioner, killing it. Hmm. that was uhh, a bad turn.



Turn 5 space marines

With little left, this went pretty fast, the pedro stood still to call in a strike, his squadmates charged a veteran squad, tigerious gated away from certain death and then machine cursed my psyker chimera and shook it, shutting down yet another soulstorm for a turn. The vindicator hit again, and killed off my demolisher. Ther was my first uh oh moment. I had boasted earlier that that combat squad on my right flank had about zero chance of scoring over there. never say stuff like that while there is still dice to be thrown. Since I had to get out of the chimera and had one dead chimera, the whirlwind had a target rich enviroenmt. It killed some more veterans and re-pinned them. (number 3) The 3 man sniper unit casuses a single wound and pinned my other veteran unit (there is 4) The ordnance barrage from pedro scattered and was uneventful.

Turn 5 IG

"No big deal, I'll just use get back in the fight on both my pinned units and then kill off pedro and the drop pod with my 10 meltaguns." WHY DO I SAY THAT STUFF OUT LOUD?! haha Movement phase I get out with my CCS and move towards the drop pod and pedro, I can't block the scouts with my chimera because the close combat with the veteran squad and the tiny sternguard unit hasn't broken open yet, so i maneuver to block them or kill them on 6. I move my psyker chimera over to set up a soulstorm or a weaken resolve on his now scoring 5 man unit, with the help of my hydras, I almost get out to do that, then realize that I'd be betting on the game ending on 5. I think i need to take the loss if the game ends but play for a win on 6 or 7, so they don't get out, and since their chimera is shaekn, they wont be doing anything.

Ok, orders... "get back in the fight soldiers!" "No, we don't want to." on a 10. Ok, fine. "You get back in the fight then!" "We don't want to either boss." on a 9. I almost threw my dice at that point. I was certainly totally hulked out big time and not having fun. I was making it non fun for Som by osmosis. My CCS killed pedro, but the drop pod was alive to block my objective. the scouts were still scoring after going to ground and taking zero wounds from my hydras, and the mini-devs were holding just fine after both my russes evaprated.

But ther was going to be a 6!



Turn 6 space marines.

Whirlwind fires and finally scatters. 5 man tactical squad gets in position to charge the psykers if their chimera dies, and tigerious gets his hood into position against the psykers and then lobs a vortex at the chimera. It kills the chimera, and the psykers fall out. Pin test? You know what i do when that happens. They are pinned. The space marine combat squad just finishes the last of the other psyker squad that was loitering nearby and laughs at the other unit. The mini-devs use the laser back and some movement to completely block LOS to the hydras. Another short and easy turn for the marines.

Turn 6 IG. All my tools are blocked or tied up or something else frustrating. I shoot everything I have (hydras, 2 chimeras, a veteran unit at the scouts) and kill 2 of 3! No psykers around to weaken resolve, so they are going to score still! I melta'ed the drop pod and managed to score my own, and was totally set up and just praying there would be a turn 7. As it stood, I was losing again! My CCS charged into that slap-fight that was down to one of my veterans and one of the sternguard. They killed off the sternguard and jailbroke a single veteran model.

I roll a 6! The game continues and I finally breathe a sigh of relief.

Turn 7 space marines. the combat squad that i said never had a chance of scoring that objective wipes out the psykers, and then scores. The mini-devs score thanks to pedro making them scoring, the whirlwind tries to kill off my vets, but even a failed pin test has no effect on their scoring status (yes that was 6 out of 7 failed pin tests this game)

Turn 7 IG.

I move the veteran unit that embarked in a chimera the turn earlier up another 12" and score the objective nearest the enemy table edge. I move 6" with the lone veteran from the close combat and issue him a 'move, move, move' which he actually passes. he gets a 6" run off of that and easily scores the middle objective. My pinned vets near the dead drop pod just lay there, scoring the third.

I look up at the sky, shake my fist to the heaven's and scream "Is that the best you can do?!?"




My man of the match: hydras. simple and effective, it just kept putting wounds on things in the late game, and in the early game it took apart the marine armor. The executioner was expecting to be the MVP yet again versus space marines, but a little 'collateral damage' kept him out of that spot.

I really like the list I took, except I think the demolisher is pretty crappy in comparison to the exectutioner. i think I might drop the astropath and shuffle somethings to get that upgraded asap.


I really, really blew it when i went after those scouts with the banewolf. Scouts do NOTHING to me, and I should have just let them shoot their sniper rifles at me. If that banewolf did what I put it in the list to do, then my demolisher doesn't take that "risky" shot, and BOTH of my russes end up alive. My eyes got big when i saw that ridiculous deployment Som had, and I went for it. Of course the laserback was gonna get a kill shot.

I owe Som an apology. I hate when someone bemoans their luck in front of me while I'm in the process of beating them. It marginalizes their generalship and the choices they are making to put the bad luck on you. Som, you played very well, but your list was completely wacky. I had gotten that big lead early, and wasn't really prepared for the bad luck string that followed. We were laughing almost the whole tie, I wasn't totally flipped out, but I was truly flabergasted at times, and I could have been a better opponent.

He did agree that it might have been the worst string of luck he'd ever seen. maybe just to placate the beast that was growing inside me.


Really fun game. The IG list felt REALLY powerful. Like 'big boy pants' powerful. After the game, Som said "I want to play against this list with my demons" Which I can't wait for. I'll feel a little bit better if i lose to them, than an army he's just getting acclimated with.

Thanks for reading, Somnicide should be along shortly to add and subtract.

Wow, helluva game. Nice to see that the new IG are resilient enough to take that kind of a beating and still come back.

So, 6 Chimeras, a Hound, and 2 Russes, huh? No Valks or Vendettas this game. Do you feel like the list would have been better had you found a way to include them? Or is the straight mech enough? Seems to me that the new firepoint rules and removal of the open-topped stuff on the Chimera really make mech powerful for the Guard.

Would upgrading the Demolisher's sponsons to plasma have been enough? Or do you want to fully upgrade it to an Executioner?

Just get an executioner and skip the demolisher. I mean, Executioners are just SO GOOD! I've killed so many Termies that it just isn't funny anymore for my opponent (I once took out an entire 10-man squad with those 5 small-blast templates of AWESOMENESS!!). It kills too many things to be left at home.


-A.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Wow, helluva game. Nice to see that the new IG are resilient enough to take that kind of a beating and still come back.

Yeah, eating the backswing of turn 4 and 5 to the face, but still winning the game flet like something only 'top tier' armies can do. I guess that might mean something

Death By Monkeys wrote:So, 6 Chimeras, a Hound, and 2 Russes, huh? No Valks or Vendettas this game. Do you feel like the list would have been better had you found a way to include them? Or is the straight mech enough? Seems to me that the new firepoint rules and removal of the open-topped stuff on the Chimera really make mech powerful for the Guard.

Don't forget the 3x hydras. Which were just flat out excellent. I really like valkyries and vendettas. They have good firepower. They have transport capacity, and a completely unique ability to deliver a unit after moving 24" (although its really just giving the unit inside the ability to deep strike in a very limited area.) The problem with them in my head currently, is that the valkyrie doesn't do counter-assault as well as the banewolf. Since the banewolf doesn't scatter, you can fire it danger close at things that are trying to attach sticky bombs onto your tanks. And I'm sure this will start a big discussion, but I believe the devildog outperforms the vendetta in tank killing.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Would upgrading the Demolisher's sponsons to plasma have been enough? Or do you want to fully upgrade it to an Executioner?

I'm right there with Sourclams on this one. Take an executioner a demolisher or an eradicator in that order of preference, but every one of those should have plasma sponsons. So yeah, I'd have rather spent 20 more points for the plas sponsons, but upgrading the demolisher to an executioner is also points well spent.

augfubuoy wrote:Just get an executioner and skip the demolisher. I mean, Executioners are just SO GOOD! I've killed so many Termies that it just isn't funny anymore for my opponent (I once took out an entire 10-man squad with those 5 small-blast templates of AWESOMENESS!!). It kills too many things to be left at home.

Word.

Remember when everyone saw the leaked summary, and saw the heavy 3 executioner turret, and freaked out. And then remember when they speculated that the tank will be over 200 points, and then just about everyone said that paying more than 200 points for a 5 plasma cannon 1 heavy bolter russ was too many points. Those were funny times.

The LR executioner with plas sponsons is THAT good.

Only reason i rolled a demo is because i needed to find some points, so the sponsons got downgraded as did the turret.



edit: i did tweak the list a bit and there is now a couple things that are conspicuously missing. I think I'm really pushing the 'good' units now though, and I'm ready to throw this list at anything. Rematching demons and horde orks asap (hopefully this weekend) and getting Absolute Blue to whip out the lash for me to wail on. I'll write up batreps for all the archetypical matchups. here's the new list...

ccs 4x melta chimera

10x psykers chimera

9x psykers chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

banewolf with hflamer and smoke launchers

executioner with plas sponsons

executioner with plas sponsons

3x hydras

I want to discuss this at length later, but just have a minute to comment now -

1) So you don't feel Fleet Officer and Astropath are mandatory? Bold statement in this environment.

2) Devildog > Vendetta in tank-killing. No argument. I ran the numbers on this as soon as they got leaked and in pure tank-killing power, the Devildog outperforms the Vendetta significantly.

More later...

Thats some sweet sweet guard love right there SHep. Great report, great pics, and way to persevere. I think you sold me on the Hydras. I was pretty on the fence about them as 90% of the players here are MEQ. If they can tear them up like that I think I'm going to try them.

Death By Monkeys wrote:1) So you don't feel Fleet Officer and Astropath are mandatory? Bold statement in this environment.

They probably are. I just want those points, really, really badly. I'm just going to run a set of games without them and if I find myself not wanting to be on the table at all on turn 1, or getting overwhelmed by reserves then I'll know that I need to give back some or all of those points. I'm sure it wouldn't take very long to find a post where I said they were mandatory. I just want to upgrade that second russ, the demolisher just let me down big time.

2) Devildog > Vendetta in tank-killing. No argument. I ran the numbers on this as soon as they got leaked and in pure tank-killing power, the Devildog outperforms the Vendetta significantly.

The list was pretty close, the snipers had cloaks and the vindicator had siege shields which I used with impunity.

I spent two turns putting it into your mind that the demolisher would scatter and destroy your executioner, you were a fool to doubt my mojo. :-p

I shoulda deployed the scouts further back, that forest was the worst place in the world for them, they were at least 18" from the nearest objective.

Also, not only did I forget about my reserve rerolls with Tigurius, but I also forgot the extra attack for being within 12" of Pedro (d'oh!)

My theory with Tigurius that that I hadn't used librarians yet and wanted to be able to play with each of the powers and find out which ones I use and how many of them per turn. I am thinking I will just go the cheap route. I note that you forgot to mention that when that drop pod showed up that Tigurius dropped into place that he vortexed himself and his unit, killing 2.

Also, not that it matters a whole lot, but my lascannons kept the executioner shaken and the chimera with the psykers was destroyed by the flamer tac combat squad. That squad did really well, actually.

That list I played was actually kind of decent - definitely outpowered by yours, but I think the theory is basically sound and I will be refining it somewhat. Being the underdog like that is actually kind of fun, forced me to play a really tight game. I had a solid plan and stuck to it which allowed me to take advantage of your miserable luck on that one turn and I pounced on the opportunities that were presented. It was a real laugher of a game - I will remember eye protection next time, though :-p

I think your biggest tactical failure was holding back as much as you did. You spent the majority of the game reacting to me and letting me control the tempo despite the fact that you had both speed and firepower on me. I think you would have been better served taking advantage on that right away.

But yeah, overall, it was another really fun, really tight game! I can't wait for the rematch with Crimson Fists.

Oh, also, just to add them here -

Commendation
This is a toss up between the Vindicator and the flamer combat squad. Both of them were really effective and kept me in the game.

Comdemnation
Those hydras just put out so much lead that I couldn't afford to ignore them.

I was looking at shep's new list, and I wonder would the following work better:

ccs 4xmelta chimera
psykers chimera
psykers chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

1xpcs, 4melta, chimera
2xline squad, flamer

1x Vendetta
1x Vendetta

1xexecutioner with plas sponsons
1xexecutioner with plas sponsons
---
Reason:
I think one vendetta with 3tl lascannon hits per 130 points (43.3pt per cannon) is comparable with hydra at 37.5pts per tl autocannon in shooting at most vehicles, while the vendetta can do other things than a static fire base and hurt heavy armor. In addition, a x3 squad would probably overkill av10/av11 more often than not, no point spending 225pts overkilling when 130pts of shooting would do. Hydra is only significantly better if shooting at hoard (including large squads of low av), forcing armor checks and mech eldar, but guard should have some of that covered from all the mutilasers on chimeras and such.

Well, when there is a extra transport one finds points somewhere to fill it.... There is less counter assault but now there is a speed bump for what its worth..... The rest probably have to be made up from chimera hull flamers on ones that'd be moving anyways....

SWPIGWANG wrote:I was looking at shep's new list, and I wonder would the following work better:

ccs 4xmelta chimera
psykers chimera
psykers chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

veterans 3x melta chimera

1xpcs, 4melta, chimera
2xline squad, flamer

1x Vendetta
1x Vendetta

1xexecutioner with plas sponsons
1xexecutioner with plas sponsons
---
Reason:
I think one vendetta with 3tl lascannon hits per 130 points (43.3pt per cannon) is comparable with hydra at 37.5pts per tl autocannon in shooting at most vehicles, while the vendetta can do other things than a static fire base and hurt heavy armor. In addition, a x3 squad would probably overkill av10/av11 more often than not, no point spending 225pts overkilling when 130pts of shooting would do. Hydra is only significantly better if shooting at hoard (including large squads of low av), forcing armor checks and mech eldar, but guard should have some of that covered from all the mutilasers on chimeras and such.

Well, when there is a extra transport one finds points somewhere to fill it.... There is less counter assault but now there is a speed bump for what its worth..... The rest probably have to be made up from chimera hull flamers on ones that'd be moving anyways....

That's a really good list. My hydras really put out. And I shoot them at everything. The vendettas wouldn't be able to do what I can do to bloodcrushers or marines. But they move really well. Which is really useful in an IG list.

I'm going to be running my troop chimeras with heavy flamers. I tent to move them a lot. And i need a reminder to keep them moving forward. If that works out versus orks, I might trade in the banewolf for a devildog.

Great report - but what are the big white blobs? Smoke? Snow?

Yeah it is snow which ties in with Shep's Vostroyans (that have snow on bases and tanks and stuff - check his gallery if you haven't already)

Great report and interesting list.

How do you get the awesome overhead pictures? Do you have a camera hanging from the ceiling or something?

Plasma executioner is really nice just tested it out yesterday but wouldn't count out the Demolisher just yet.

What do you do against Nob Bikers? you don't have much strength 8+ firepower to insta kill them.

Sourclams also recommended Hydras, will need to test them.

Looking forward to your other battle reports.

I enjoyed the read. I am still a bit torn on the hydras, mainly due to their usefulness against MEQ. This helps me with that decision.

What do you think?

If you could take an executioner w/ plas sponsons, and a russ w/ plasma sponsons

or

Take a pair of demolishers w/ plasma sponsons.

I am trying to decide which is better. I think the demolisher comb is actually 10 points cheaper.

They are surprisingly good against mech - I am one of shep's regular opponents and the sheer number of armor saves those stupid things force me to take grinds me down. They are hitting 9 or 10 times each time they shoot and so that is equalling 8 or so saves I have to make - they are great for sniping out special weapons due to target saturation. They absolutely wreck rhinos/razorbacks and their insanely long range means you have to be extra careful with things like predators and vindicators if advancing because you can get caught off guard with a side armor hit.

it is rough, too, because as a Marine player I know that they are just autocannons and I also have to deal with his psykers and executioners so the hydra ends up being able to shoot almost every turn for the entire game.

Great report, and interesting list I have a few questions.

Do you find yourself wanting a second CCS?

Is the lack of ordnance barrage (colossus?) hurting at all? I find the ability to hit out of LOS units important for IG, but it seems that you can either take indirect or hydras (since you really want two units of LRBT).

You seem to really be moving in the Vet+Chimera route, are you still trying out infantry platoons or do you feel that Vets are the better route for you?

Banewolf. It it worth taking over a missile pod Valk (or vend)? The valk has speed, transport and anti horde (or tank for vend), and costs the same as the Banewolf. Have you found the Banewolf to be that powerful?

BoxANT wrote:Do you find yourself wanting a second CCS?

Yep. It's in the newest version. I have two batreps coming from this weekend. I played against lash and demons and did very well against both of them. My final tweaks from those two games at the bottom of this reply

BoxANT wrote:Is the lack of ordnance barrage (colossus?) hurting at all? I find the ability to hit out of LOS units important for IG, but it seems that you can either take indirect or hydras (since you really want two units of LRBT).

I don't miss it. I've been having real success with (gasp) playing aggressively. Even against demons and lash. Transports let you do that. I make moves on the objectives early and then plant the flag, things that come close to chimeras eat melta, and or expose themselves to shots from my heavy support.

BoxANT wrote:You seem to really be moving in the Vet+Chimera route, are you still trying out infantry platoons or do you feel that Vets are the better route for you?

I talked a big game about bring it down with ac/plas vets. I'm still going to run infantry armies, and I'm going to try some 'serious games' HWS spam armies. But the 10 man line squad has just been real ho hum. I think they are just going to be 10 strong with a flamer laying on their stomach all game giving HWS squads 4+ cover. Mechanized feels really aggressive and those meltaguns are great. The new list has 17 BS4 meltas in it. The perfect guard strategy. Any tool can be the correct one for the job if you bring a ridiculous number of them. Meltaguns become anti-infantry when you are getting 12 hits per turn with them.

BoxANT wrote:Banewolf. It it worth taking over a missile pod Valk (or vend)? The valk has speed, transport and anti horde (or tank for vend), and costs the same as the Banewolf. Have you found the Banewolf to be that powerful?

No I haven't. I don't hate it. But right now I'm looking for the absolute leanest of the lean, and the banewolf is SO close in cost to a CCS, and it isn't even remotely close to it in terms of efffectiveness.


This list is VERY close to being locked down. I'm playing horde orks with killa kans tonight. I'm not really that worried, if I'm slightly underfocused on them, thats ok, because i love my matchup against every other top tier list.


CCS 4x melta chimera with heavy flamer

CCS 4x melta chimera with heavy flamer

Overseer and 8 psykers chimera with heavy flamer

Overseer and 8 psykers chimera with heavy flamer

Vets 3x melta chimera with heavy flamer

Vets 3x melta chimera with heavy flamer

Vets 3x melta chimera with heavy flamer

Executioner with plasma sponsons

Executioner with plasma sponsons

3x hydras

I missed some totally good questions, and didn't feel like editing my post.

Avariel wrote:How do you get the awesome overhead pictures? Do you have a camera hanging from the ceiling or something?

A chair and long arms.

Avariel wrote:What do you do against Nob Bikers? you don't have much strength 8+ firepower to insta kill them.

I'll set it up for sure to see, but I've got 10 plasma cannon shots, 17 BS4 meltaguns, 12 TL autocannons, and 7 heavy flamers or multi-lasers. If I can't get my meltaguns alone to kill 3 nobs (thats 9.5 wounds before cover saves and remember I can issue four "fire on my targets") And the rest of that shooting to maybe get three dead nobs, then it might take me two turns to table them. if they don't get to go first they can't start on the table, and if their reserves come on split, and i can take each unit on one at a time, it might seriosuly be like a 20 minute game. I'm trying not to make it sound like arrogance or something, because arrogance rightfully enrages people, its just a numbers thing. Because Nobs are a 800 point unit that isn't fearless, and because armies that take two nob biker units can't kill chimeras with shooting, that just makes the matchup so outrageously bad. But don't pity the nob biker players. They still have 15 other codexes to beat up on.

Wildeyedjester wrote:What do you think?

If you could take an executioner w/ plas sponsons, and a russ w/ plasma sponsons

or

Take a pair of demolishers w/ plasma sponsons.

I am trying to decide which is better. I think the demolisher comb is actually 10 points cheaper.

I have been HATING single large blast BS3. It just takes a slightly higher than average result to completely toss your shot out the window. That large blast scatters big and you might has well have been crew shaken. I like to limit the amount of wackiness that crap dice rolls can impact my games. That's why Somnicide purchased my demons from me, and thats why I swear by executioners.

From a purely theoretical, mathematical and emotionless place, I would say the double demolisher is better than executioner and russ. But don't come to me when 66% of your heavy support takes a couple of turns off by scattering big

Shep with that new list you posted are you going with twin heavy flamers on the chimera's? One on the turret, one on the hull? Or just one? If just one where are you putting it?

I'm at the same place you are wanting the heavy flamers on the tanks. But I'm thinking the heavy flamer has to be on the turret, currently rumaging through my bits trying to decide the best way to convert the turrets.

Warmaster wrote:Shep with that new list you posted are you going with twin heavy flamers on the chimera's? One on the turret, one on the hull? Or just one? If just one where are you putting it?

I'm at the same place you are wanting the heavy flamers on the tanks. But I'm thinking the heavy flamer has to be on the turret, currently rumaging through my bits trying to decide the best way to convert the turrets.

Why the turret?

The multi-laser is way better than the heavy bolter, and the template placement rules circumvent the crappiest parts of the LOS of those hull mounted weapons.

Mine are on the hulls.

All right! Almost all painted as far as I can see. I am a bit of a paint-snob

Awesome report, just would like to see a bit more close ups.

No matter. great job!

Shep wrote:

Warmaster wrote:Shep with that new list you posted are you going with twin heavy flamers on the chimera's? One on the turret, one on the hull? Or just one? If just one where are you putting it?

I'm at the same place you are wanting the heavy flamers on the tanks. But I'm thinking the heavy flamer has to be on the turret, currently rumaging through my bits trying to decide the best way to convert the turrets.

Why the turret?

The multi-laser is way better than the heavy bolter, and the template placement rules circumvent the crappiest parts of the LOS of those hull mounted weapons.

Mine are on the hulls.

I do agree that the multi-lase is way better than the heavy bolter, and I like being able to turn it any direction to take a few long range shots but I find myself turning the chimera's a lot so that my squads can get out closer to their targets and when I do that the heavy flamer ends up nowhere near the targeted squad. I'll probably end up putting them on the hull also because I don't think I can give up the versatility of the multi-laser up there, but part of me does wonder.

I also don't know how your games are going but I end up with a lot of immobilized chimera's over the course of the game which seems to be another point in favor of the multi-laser. But i keep thinking that that turrent heavy flamer would be nice if the chimera is immobilized on an objective. I don't really want to rule it out until I've tried it a couple of times.