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I am having a hard time choosing between either striking scorpions or howling banshees for a pure assaulty unit. Anybody have a convincing argument either way? Which would you prefer?

-A.

This is an old debate that has proponents on both sides.

Both are somewhat glass-hammerish. Both will make a mess of enemy units, and both will get get left out in the open afterwards to be shot at by your opponent.

Banshees are better against terminators, and other elite hand-to-hand units. They're faster, having fleet, and hit firstest.

Scorpions can take a bit more punishment due to a better save, but they're not fleet as a result. (And they're still T3). They get more attacks at a higher strength, so they're better against lighter armoured opponents, such as orks. One other bonus for scorpions is that they can be given infiltrate, allowing them to outflank (including their wave serpent if you give them one).

Against Marines, both units are roughly equivalent.

But, really, they're both about even. If you have an opponent who you play more than any other, you might consider that as the deciding factor. If not, I'd say buy the models you like.

Scorpions because now with run their is really no reason you should not get into CC. I also like the Scorpion Exarch options better.

Banshees are very one and done also that str 3 has lost me a few battles when str 4 would of done the trick.

i often make wargear determinations on what is just strong enough to deny armor saves. If that goal requires power weapons then my vote is for banshees otherwise scorps all the way.

Banshees all the way. Nothing more satisfying than dropping these girls out the back of a transport on your enemies HQ and see them cut it to bits.

When it comes to Striking Scorpions I really don't need another horde-ish killing unit. I always field Dire Avengers, so for me with that I would just be doubling up on combat roles which I don't need. Not to mention if I was going to slog a anti-horde CC squad, Harlies are a better choice.

The only thing that can make them standout is infiltrate for me, but I would rather have scoring-Rangers/Pathfinders in most situations.

Also, IMHO they look much cooler too. That is just my 2c, but go with what your gut tells you. The beauty of the eldar army is being able to take what you need.

Well, I may just do Banshees because I proxied some SS's and they did horrible. It was bad luck too, but, to sum it up, I did 23 wounds to a SM captain attached to a combat squad and a total of NOBODY died. The captain and marines killed 4 guys (captain/Sarge had power weapons) and the Scorpions ran and were run down . I'll try them out a little more before I make my final decision, thanks for the advice though!

Scorps will give you more flexibility. The str 3 on the Banshee's is what turns me away,having to roll 5+ on T4.

I'd rather rely on the opponent failing armor saves then me having to roll 5+ to wound. Also, with fortune scorps they don't die. Their far more resilient then banshee's,which allows for more assaulting.

If you have way to doom the unit you're charging, banshees are great. Without doom, they will suffer from their str3, which might not make them capable of doing enough wounds. Then with T3 and 4+ save, they will not be able to endure any counter attack.

Otherwise, scorpions appear to be better, or at least more versatile; better str, +1 attack, +1 save. They lack fleet though, which can be a pain sometimes. The exarch can have a fist (str 6... not that great though), which can help.

Moreover, banshees will require a transport, which increases the cost of the squad. Scorpions can survive without, by infiltrating or outflanking. Points difference here.

Generally said:
vs MEQ -> banshees + doom
vs the rest -> scorpions

augfubuoy wrote:Well, I may just do Banshees because I proxied some SS's and they did horrible. It was bad luck too, but, to sum it up, I did 23 wounds to a SM captain attached to a combat squad and a total of NOBODY died. The captain and marines killed 4 guys (captain/Sarge had power weapons) and the Scorpions ran and were run down . I'll try them out a little more before I make my final decision, thanks for the advice though!

That sounds like a whole bunch of really bad luck rolling, sir. 21 wounds, all saved? Give them another proxy, I say.

Howling banshees vs striking scorpions? I feel like it's 3rd ed all over again.

Agree with Arleucs. Without Doom the Banshees are just trailer trash with masks. Scorpions don't have fleet, but can run. Infiltrating is fun, Outflanking is better. I've won or tied games simply because of their Outflanking, 3+ Armor, and STR 6 Fist against troops.

Here is some basic math related to the 2 units. This is assuming you are fighting against MEQ and that you get the charge:

Scorpions (9 scorpions + exarch w/claw):
9*4 attacks 4+ to hit = 18 hits
4+ to wound = 9 wounds
6.75 3+ saves = 3 unsaved wounds
Exarch with claw 4 attacks 3+ to hit = 2.3 hits
2+ to wound = 2.3 unsaved wounds
TOTAL = 5.3 dead MEQ

Banshees (9 banshees + exarch w/executioner):
3*9 attacks 4+ to hit = 13.5 hits.
5+ to wound = 4.5 wounds.
Exarch 3 attack 3+ to hit = 2 hits
3+ to wound = 1.3 wound
reroll wounds = .7 wound
TOTAL = 6.5 dead MEQ

For kicks, this is what it looks like if the unit that is being attacked has been doomed:

Scorpions:
9*4 attacks 4+ to hit = 18 hits
4+ to wound = 9 wounds
re-roll 9 = 4.5 more wounds
13.5 3+ saves = 4.5 unsaved wounds
Exarch with claw 4 attacks 3+ to hit = 2.3 hits
2+ to wound = 2.3 unsaved wounds
TOTAL = 6.8 dead MEQ

Banshees:
3*9 attacks 4+ to hit = 13.5 hits.
5+ to wound = 4.5 wounds.
re-roll 9 = 3 more wounds.
Exarch 3 attack 3+ to hit = 2 hits
3+ to wound = 1.3 wound
reroll wounds = .7 wound
TOTAL = 9.5 dead MEQ

Well, Eldar is best played in a shooty style with some counter-strike units.
Good counter-strikers are MCs and Harlequins; MCs are tough and Harlies cannot be targeted at range.
Banshees are inferior to these choices.

Scorpions on the other hand are able to outflank while being mounted in a Serpent. This could give you some tactical advantage as they eventually can disrupt enemy plans.

You forget the part about Banshees looking cooler. XD

Some things have changed about this debate since the advent of 5th ed., so it's not entirely useless to discuss here.

In Mech: Outflank is less of an advantage for races that have 24" move transports (more with Star Engines). I'd rather have the dependability of having all my transports on the board at the same time. Also, Scorps' advantage is their resiliency to fire while they run in. With transported assaults, this is less useful. Banshees seem to have pulled ahead for transport assaults.

On foot: Banshees just get blown away easier than Scorps, are less maneuverable in the cover that they will need to hug to stay alive, and the Scorps gained Run. Finally, Outflanking is really useful for a foot force, if the CC elemnet is being used aggressively and not just as a countercharge unit. Even better, the Outflanking option is an upgrade, and not a required buy if you're just using them for countercharge. The Scorps seem to have become the best choice for foot travel.

Then there's interaction with the rest of your force. As others have mentioned, since the rise of cover and the fall of the starcannon there's not much volume armor-piercing (vs. AP3) fire in most Eldar lists, and a whole lot of S4 shuriken fire/S6 scatter/shuriken fire. This makes Banshees (well, and Harlies) slightly more appealing for countercharge.

So since the advent of 5th, I would contend that the two choices have found firm niches, even more than before. Banshees are best for transport assault (better than Harlies, as they have that 4+ armor and are marginally cheaper), Scorps for aggressive foot lists (usually vs. IG), and neither (Harlies instead) for countercharge in shooty foot lists.