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I have heard in circles ideas whispered of making what they call a Tyrant Wall.

Basically the wall consists of 2 groups of Hive Tyrant and 3 Tyrant Guard, making a total of 8, chunky, wide based models, or about 14"-16" wall. Behind this wall you place as many of your weaker creatures (hormagaunts or genestealers or w/e) as you can. The idea being that you model the Tyrants and their guard in such a way that at best you can see about 1 square cm of the guys behind, in other words you can't draw line of sight, and thus can not fire upon the units behind the t6 3+ save wall. Each turn you run the wall forward until you make it within assault range, and then watch as now the assault becomes the wall, and so on the whole time the opponent is at best most likely to be able to shoot only the tyrant wall, but in assault your units are backed up by the whole army.

In RAW (and in game) is this possible. I have searched the rule book and it says that if you can not draw LOS you can not fire. It also says that you can shoot through units but they get a cover save. They give examples that are obvious such as a thin line of space marines being merely cover, but standing behind a tank is out of LOS. Tyrant Guard are as chunky as tanks but count as infantry, the rules seem murky to me...

Remember you are actually using line of SIGHT. As written in the 5th edition rules, if you can physically see ANY part of a model's body you can fire at it, even if it is only 1cm big.

So it is almost 100% impossible to completely obscure whole units behind the Tyrant w/ Tyrant Guard because there will always be at least part of one model visible through the Tyrants and/or Tyrant Guard and all you have to be able to do is draw LOS to any part of the body of one model in the target unit and the entire unit can now be shot at and killed.

Yes, the units behind will get a cover save because the shots are going through the Tyrant/Tyrant Guard unit, but still, you can shoot them.

What yakface said.

It depends how good you are at modeling. I said at most 1cm, if done properly the idea there is that you could make it so you can't see ANYTHING! Have you seen the Tyrant Guard and Hive Tyrant models? They are blocky and chunky as a tank, you could easily make a wall to hide the tiny little hormagaunts behind haha.

Example, get an apple, put a plum behind it. Get two apples, you can fit about 3 plumbs behind it. Get 6 apples and 2 big oranges, now I bet you can fit about 10+ plumbs behind it sideways, and depending on your angle A LOT of them long ways...

ihatehumans wrote:It depends how good you are at modeling. I said at most 1cm, if done properly the idea there is that you could make it so you can't see ANYTHING! Have you seen the Tyrant Guard and Hive Tyrant models? They are blocky and chunky as a tank, you could easily make a wall to hide the tiny little hormagaunts behind haha.

Example, get an apple, put a plum behind it. Get two apples, you can fit about 3 plumbs behind it. Get 6 apples and 2 big oranges, now I bet you can fit about 10+ plumbs behind it sideways, and depending on your angle A LOT of them long ways...

Convert your models to gain an advantage in the game, you say? I've never heard of such a thing (see my sig)!

But remember, there is nothing in the rules about being able to convert your models. By the RAW we should all be using stock GW miniatures for the game. It is only through the unspoken social contract of gamers that we all allow converted models to be used so under that same social contract you shouldn't be shocked when your opponents refuse to play with you when they feel you've abused that contract in order to gain an in-game advantage.


Edit: Also, you seem to be forgetting that you can see through the Tyrants legs and over the areas of the base where the models don't block. Unless you're modeling giant cloth shields or something crazy, you're not going to be blocking LOS completely through your models. And if you are, again, don't be surprised if tournaments are expelling you, your friends won't play you, and those that do come back with even more absurd modeling to screw you over.

Oh and assuming you can still see some tiny part of the units behind, what kind of cover save would you give? Generic 4+ or better?

ihatehumans wrote:Oh and assuming you can still see some tiny part of the units behind, what kind of cover save would you give? Generic 4+ or better?

As the rulebook says: 4+.

Stock standard still has pivots on legs and such, and on top of that there is things about converting, and all it states is that converters are not penalized for over elaborate banners and such, and that terrain features on a base do not effect LOS or Cover.

I am not saying converting a mini to gain an advantage, I am saying using a model intended to be thick and beefy to be thick and beefy!

Once again the rulebook also says it's often a good idea to modify saving throws based on the circumstance...

ihatehumans wrote:Once again the rulebook also says it's often a good idea to modify saving throws based on the circumstance...

Thats only if the cover situation is unsure. In the case you presented the cover situation is 100% clear, and will grant a 4+ cover save.

And read the bit on LoS again. Banners block Line of Sight THROUGH them, but do not give line of sight TO the model holding it.

Ok so the consensus is that you couldn't block all LOS and even if you could/did manage it, you were getting an in game advantage where you weren't supposed to, and thus most people would deny you it. The best you can hope for is a 4+ cover save, the same save that a unit if pinty sized grots would give?

<3 RAW lol.

Yes, boo hoo?

You do realise that the 4+ cover save isn't because it is blocking LoS but because its distracting the firers/are a more Immediate threat.

Honestly, all your "Omfg RaW is so stupid lol" makes me wonder why you bother asking the questions here. If you are just going to ignore what we say and reply "Yeah but it's stupid I'm gonna house rule it" why bother asking?

Lol, I'm boohoo and your RAGE!

I wanted to hear your RAW, I never said I was ignoring it at all, and I do understand that its from the "distraction" I think my point holds either way, I think you mis-interpret my comments.

I never said RAW was stupid, show me the line where I said "RAW is dumb/stupid/un-intelligent" what I meant by "<3 RAW lol" is that it can seem counter-intuitive some times, I never complained about it, or said it was bad other than the un-arguable fact that it is counter intuitive sometimes. I like playing RAW in tournies or stores, but I am just as open to my opponent going "That's just stupid!" and working it out. At home my friends and I discuss most rules to make sure neither of us is getting jipped as far as realistically or game balance goes.

Gwar, I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it till your happy, I value your RAW posts, they are always helpful and spot on (when this RUM device isn't attached, what ever it is) and do not mean to de-value your interpretations in any way!