Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can this list be made tier 1 competative?

Pedro Kantor

2x 10 Sternguard
- PF
- 4 Combi-melta
- Drop Pod

8 Vanguard Vets
- 2 PF
- Relic Blade

10 Tactical
- PF
- Flamer
- ML
- Drop Pod

10 Tactical
- PF
- Flamer
- ML

Land Raider Redeemer
- Multi-melta
- Extra Armor


List comes out to 1750. Vanguard ride in the LRR and have 5 attacks each on the charge (Pedro hangs out in the LRR close by but protected). List has as many as 8 scoring units or as few as 10 KPs. At 1850 I add either a Librarian or Chaplain, 2k drops in an Iron Clad and leaves the 2 Tac squads walking.

How does this stand up against the current tier 1 builds out there? The Vanguard are only in there because I really like the MK1 and MK2 models, but for the about the same points I could switch in 6 TH/SS terminators. I think Nob Bikers hand this list its butt, Dual Lash gets dicey at best and it may fair well against Fatecrusher (drop-in kill of Fateweaver being the key).

Any suggestions? Thanks.

No, its not tier 1.
I only see Ork builds and double lash.

I'd drop the powerfist from your Sternguard units. Use the points on more combi-weapons or a Drop Pod for the second Tac Squad.

gojira316 wrote:I'd drop the powerfist from your Sternguard units. Use the points on more combi-weapons or a Drop Pod for the second Tac Squad.

Thank you. I left the PFs in for 2 reasons; the model is really cool and I am fearful of Dreads tying up the until they squish it. I could drop the PFs add 2 more combi-meltas and meltabombs to the unit if that would be better.

Any other help?

It also doens't help that you have Vanguard in there...they are one of the least competitive units in the codex. You would be much more competetive with their points spent elsewhere....just about anywhere else, in fact.

If a DSing assault unit is what you want, I would suggest either Assault Termies or basic Assault Marines.

I have to disagree about the Vanguard. I've been using them for about a month now and they've always been worth it. However, you NEED Locator Beacons so they don't scatter out of assault range and get dead.

The Vanguard have no jump packs, they ride into battle in the LRR and do not deep strike.

I have a feeling I could tear this list apart with my horde orks. I outnumber you 3:1 with my list, and the only template weapons I see is the ones on the redeemer. That's certainly not a threat to 150 ork boyz, trust me. Just ask gojira who posted up above. We played Sunday and he had 2x 10man Sternguard with combi-flamers. They wiped out almost 2 units, but there just wasn't enough left to take out the rest. With no flamers, I honestly don't see how this list can handle any style of horde army, whether it be orks, tyranids or new IG

Zero_Cool wrote:The Vanguard have no jump packs, they ride into battle in the LRR and do not deep strike.

Then they really are completely useless for their points. You are paying all the points for heroic intervention and the ability to customize them withh all sorts of crazy goodies; if you don't take advantage of it, then they are just overcosted, +1 attack assault marines w/o jump packs. You would be better off sticking Assault termies in any LR varient.

A simple answer to your question...no, the list is not anywhere near tier one competitive...sorry to say

That's cool, I was thinking the answer would be no. I could easily replace the VV with 5 terminators.

Is there a tier 1 space marine list?

Is there a tier 1 space marine list?

Possibly.
Assault Terminator spam or Sternguard spam.

wuestenfux wrote: .... Sternguard spam.

What would be considered Sternguard spam? I have 20 Sternguard in this list already.

Well, take 3x 10 Sternguard w/ combi-melta and 2 Librarians with gate; this amounts to Stelek's Sternguard list.
That would be a decent core.

Zero_Cool wrote:That's cool, I was thinking the answer would be no. I could easily replace the VV with 5 terminators.

Is there a tier 1 space marine list?

Yes

HQ - Libby, Termie, SS, Null Zone, Vortex
EL - Dread w/ MM
EL - Dread w/ MM
EL - 5 Assault Termies, Redeemer, MM
TR - 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabombs, Razorback, assault cannon
TR - 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabombs, Razorback, assault cannon
TR - 10 marines, Lascannon
FA - 3 Attack Bikes, MM
HV - Thunderfire Cannon
HV - Thunderfire Cannon


Sometimes I take out the 2nd T-Fire ( and stuff) for 3 HB attack bikes, sometimes not.

DarthDiggler wrote:

Zero_Cool wrote:That's cool, I was thinking the answer would be no. I could easily replace the VV with 5 terminators.

Is there a tier 1 space marine list?

Yes

HQ - Libby, Termie, SS, Null Zone, Vortex
EL - Dread w/ MM
EL - Dread w/ MM
EL - 5 Assault Termies, Redeemer, MM
TR - 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabombs, Razorback, assault cannon
TR - 10 Marines, Lascannon, Meltagun, Meltabombs, Razorback, assault cannon
TR - 10 marines, Lascannon
FA - 3 Attack Bikes, MM
HV - Thunderfire Cannon
HV - Thunderfire Cannon


Sometimes I take out the 2nd T-Fire ( and stuff) for 3 HB attack bikes, sometimes not.

this is your tier 1 list? seriously?

man... I miss Stelek.

man... I miss Stelek.

Where is he?

[quote=Sushicaddy
this is your tier 1 list? seriously?

man... I miss Stelek.

Congratulations.

However, we still look for better SM lists.

You can look all you want. The best lists never make it to Dakka until AFTER they have won something. Ever notice that. We don't post the best until after it has won. Meanwhile the lists running around are the best that can come up on paper, not the tabletop. Don't get me wrong there are some nice lists posted here, but I don't see the best lists until after, not before.


It's the Millenium Falcon of lists. It doesn't look like much but it's got it where it counts. It can handle anything out there. Win big everytime? No, nothing in 5th can anymore, but it can beat everything.

It's funny cause I was actually gonna say i'd seen a similar army to Darth's that was just vicious. It doesn't look like it on paper but when the brawling starts it's just plain sick.

As for the OP's list the only real problem i have is with the Vanguard. For a competitive list they are a bit of a point sink, though used well you might get their points back though i'd probably drop at least 1 pf from the squad and add 5 more combi weapons to the sternguard units.

DarthDiggler wrote:[quote=Sushicaddy
this is your tier 1 list? seriously?

man... I miss Stelek.

Yep, 5 time Gladiator Champ. Adepticon Gladiator Champ + 3rd place finish (only played in it twice and ran it two more times), Adepticon Team Tourney 3 time top 5 finish including first place. (only played in it 4 times and still haven't lost a game) Ard Boyz 7th place finish the first year at Baltimore including firstplace finishes in the 2 preliminary rounds (I'm still opening boxes from the 5000 pt. Mech guard army they sent me, yes 5K pts.). The OP is a great painter and swell guy to play agianst. Sometimes he likes to just play models that look cool. That hasn't stopped him from being the only 2-time Adepticon 40K Championship overall winner (2 years in a row). I'm pretty confident I can knock you into the loser tables anytime.

The list doesn't scare me at all.
My double-lash list and Orks can eventually handle it.

Thanks all.

DD is right, sometimes I like to play with models just because I like the look. If I can get them into a list and still make it competative that's even better.

I think that if I drop out the VV for 5 TH/SS Termies I would have 50 points left over to add a few more combis to the Sternguard or a MM Attack Bike. I would really like to add a Thunderfire to the list though for a little more croud control.

If I do the switch-out for the Terms, I could easily run a level 2 Librarian @ 1850.

Keep the constructive criticism coming.

Up in the Seattle area there is a Pedro player who has been doing well (won a RTT, finished 3rd in a Indy GT) with a build that goes something like this:

Pedro
Terminator Libby with Nullzone,Either Gate or Vortex , & srtormshield
9 Man Sternguard Unit with power fist ( a few combi Meltas mixed in)
Rhino
10 Man Sternguard Unit ( a few combi Meltas mixed in)
10 Man Tac Squad with flamer & Missle launcher in Rhino
10 Man Tac Squad with flamer & Missle launcher in Rhino
5 Man scout squad with Power first & combi melta or combi flamer in a Land speeder storm with a heavy flamer
Land Raider with extra armor

Pedro starts in the rhino and uses his orbital blast on turn 1, the storm & scouts use the scout move to get turn 1 assault or outflank.