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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Turns out both wings have their nuts but only right wing nuts were cited.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/05/homeland-pulled-back-extremism-dictionary/

Homeland pulled back extremism dictionary
Audrey Hudson (Contact)

WASHINGTON — The same Homeland Security Department office that categorized veterans as potential terrorists issued an earlier report that defined dozens of "extremists" ranging from black power activists to abortion foes. The report was nixed within hours and recalled from state and local law enforcement officials.

Whites and blacks, Christians and Jews, Cubans and Mexicans, along with tax-hating Americans were among several political leanings listed in the "Domestic Extremism Lexicon" that came out of the Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) in late March.

The lexicon lists definitions for key terms and phrases used by Homeland Security analysts "that addresses the nature and scope of the threat that domestic, non-Islamic extremism poses to the United States," the report said.

Black separatism was defined as a movement that they said advocates the establishment of a separate nation within the U.S., and its members "advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence directed toward local law enforcement" to advance their goals. Black power is a "term used by black separatists to describe their pride in, and the perceived superiority of the black race," the report said.

Under the listing "antiabortion extremism," the lexicon cites a movement that "advocates violence against providers of abortion-related services." It notes that some people in the movement "cite various racist and anti-Semitic beliefs to justify their criminal activities."

"The lexicon was not an authorized I&A product, and it was recalled as soon as management discovered it had been released without authorization," said Amy Kudwa, Homeland Security spokeswoman.

"This product is not, nor was it ever, in operational use," Ms. Kudwa said.

Rep. Peter T. King, New York Republican and ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said the report "causes further concern that Congress needs to get to the bottom of exactly how DHS determines what intelligence products to distribute to law enforcement officials around the country."

"Although we have evidence that some of the groups described in this and other DHS intelligence products are an active terror threat to our nation, I would be interested in knowing why this lexicon mentioning left-wing extremist groups was deemed inappropriate by DHS and recalled, yet a similar report focusing on veterans, antiabortion activists and anti-illegal immigration activists was fit for distribution and sent out by DHS to law enforcement agencies across the country," Mr. King said.

The 11-page lexicon document lists terms from A through W, beginning with "aboveground," which is defined as extremist groups or people who "operate overtly and portray themselves as law-abiding," and ending with "white supremacist movement." The listing notes six categories of white supremacists: Neo-Nazi, Ku Klux Klan, Christian identity, racist skinhead, Nordic mysticism and Aryan prison gangs.

A "left-wing extremist" is described as someone who opposes war or is dedicated to environmental and animal rights causes, while a "right-wing extremist" is someone who is against abortion or for border enforcement.

The same "right-wing" definition appeared in a report last month that prompted an outcry in the veterans community for also suggesting that veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were targets for extremist groups to recruit for attacks against the U.S.

That report was not recalled; however, the department said it has instituted changes to more carefully review these reports before they are sent to local law enforcement agencies.

"Since this happened prior to our last experience, our new internal protocols were obviously not in place," Ms. Kudwa said.

Roger Mackin, the head of the I&A responsible for the report that suggested veterans were being recruited to commit terrorist acts in the U.S., was replaced late last month. Ms. Kudwa said then that the personnel moves were categorically not related to the veterans-related story reported by The Washington Times in mid-April.

She also said Mr. Mackin would move outside Homeland Security, to the cybersecurity section at the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The new detail for Mr. Mackin had been planned for several weeks and predated the April 7 report, Ms. Kudwa said at the time.

The latest report to become public, the lexicon on domestic extremism, stated that people involved with anti-immigration extremism "may have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism to advance their extremist goals."

"They are highly critical of the U.S. government's response to illegal immigration and oppose government programs that are designed to extend 'rights' to illegal aliens, such as issuing driver's licenses or national identification cards and providing in-state tuition, medical benefits, or public education."

"Cuban independence extremism" is defined as those who "do not recognize the legitimacy of the Communist Cuban Government and who attempt to subvert it through acts of violence, mainly within the U.S."

Mexican separatism defines those would advocate an armed struggle to take back Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas, the report stated.

Environmental extremism is described as those "who use violence to end what they perceive as the degradation of the natural environment by humans."

And, the "tax-resistance movement" is described as "groups or individuals who vehemently believe taxes violate their constitutional rights."

The criteria in the listings are a willingness to advocate or engage in criminal activity or plot acts of terrorism.

The report lists traditional extremist groups, such as racist skinheads or lone terrorists who might plot against the U.S., as well as some obscure groups. Racial Nordic mysticism is listed as an ideology adopted by many white supremacist prison gangs "who embrace a Norse mythological religion, such as Odinism or Asatru."


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





They had a list of left leaning terror groups back in Feb, It talked about their use of cyber-terror, Enviromental terrorest, Anarchists, and tons of others.

"The lexicon was not an authorized I&A product, and it was recalled as soon as management discovered it had been released without authorization," said Amy Kudwa, Homeland Security spokeswoman"

This Lexicon was full of errors, and listed some of the smallest threats around.

Cuban independence extremism

Mexican separatism

Blacks targeting Cops, I hurt my sides laughing at that one.

These arn't threats worth more than a small yearly report.

However, There has been Known recruitment of Vets. The worst Domestic Terrorist in the united states was a vet

Again, the Left leaning terror report was released in Febuary. This wasn't Mad public because it's a useless error filled pile of Gak. The Notion that They are cracking down on Right-leanging terrorist more is laughable. The Neo-Nazi skin head group sworn to Murder all Jews are simply more dangerous than the Cuban Independance group.

And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Professional




Empire Of Denver, Urth

I think it's interesting that these reports are being issued at all. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Who benefits from the release of this kind of information?

“It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood” -- Karl Popper 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

sexiest_hero wrote:They had a list of left leaning terror groups back in Feb, It talked about their use of cyber-terror, Enviromental terrorest, Anarchists, and tons of others.

"The lexicon was not an authorized I&A product, and it was recalled as soon as management discovered it had been released without authorization," said Amy Kudwa, Homeland Security spokeswoman"

This Lexicon was full of errors, and listed some of the smallest threats around.

Cuban independence extremism

Mexican separatism

Blacks targeting Cops, I hurt my sides laughing at that one.

These arn't threats worth more than a small yearly report.

However, There has been Known recruitment of Vets. The worst Domestic Terrorist in the united states was a vet

Again, the Left leaning terror report was released in Febuary. This wasn't Mad public because it's a useless error filled pile of Gak. The Notion that They are cracking down on Right-leanging terrorist more is laughable. The Neo-Nazi skin head group sworn to Murder all Jews are simply more dangerous than the Cuban Independance group.


Who's a more likely terrorist-nevironmental terrorists or people who believe in anti-abortion? One bomb at a clinic by a nut, vs. hundreds of spiked trees and burned homes. But which one is specified as being a potential terrorist?...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:
Who's a more likely terrorist-nevironmental terrorists or people who believe in anti-abortion? One bomb at a clinic by a nut, vs. hundreds of spiked trees and burned homes. But which one is specified as being a potential terrorist?...


Well, the anti-abortion activist is more likely to be a potential terrorist, because the environmental terrorist already is one. If you're suggesting the government put out a manual saying "terrorists are more likely to be terrorists" it won't exactly hurt, but it probably won't help much either. I mean, state and local law enforcement are working hard dealing with the eco-terror guys, while broadcasting might make people feel better by showing that nutjobs and violence exist all over the spectrum, I'm imaging the purpose of this report is to alert law enforcement to threats that maybe they're not thinking about.

There's also a pretty big difference in the goals and ends of the different groups. Eco-terrorism tends to focus more on property destruction, with few injuries or deaths. It's not that we as a nation aren't interested in protecting property, we're more worried (I think) about the groups trying to kill people.

Alternatively, this could simply be the result of a very partisan White House using the very broad powers of the modern Imperial Presidency to hassle, inconvenience, and castigate it's enemies. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Incorrect. Spiking a tree is an excellent way to maim or kill a logger. That is the specific intent.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:Incorrect. Spiking a tree is an excellent way to maim or kill a logger. That is the specific intent.


Also incorrect. The specific intent is to make logging uneconomical. If the goal were to maim or kill loggers, it's a spectacular failure, as it very rarely happens. It could happen, but since it hasn't, claiming it's an excellent way to do something it has never actually done is simply empty rhetoric

It did maim a worker at a lumber processing center, which raised a lot of the ire, and the possibility of injury is classic terrorism, but the entire practice has killed fewer people than a bad car crash. In addition, most groups have renounced the practice, specifically after they found out that it could hurt loggers, making it used by the extreme edges of the fringe elements of the periphery....

I mean, I have no problem labeling these folks as terrorists and sending them to prison, but let's be willing to see shades of gray. Doing something that you hope and plan to kill lots of people is simply worse than doing something that could possible hurt somebody. This is why First Degree Murder is punished differently from Vehicular Manslaughter.

Finally, eco terrorists tend to focus on economic activity that they see as damaging the environment, not "normal" citizens or governments directly. It's not that government shouldn't work to protect the assets and employees of corporations, it's just that those same companies have their own security, their insurance, the efforts of industry wide groups, and the ability to influence all levels of government through lobbying. Meaning, if you decide to log old growth forests, the risks are known, accepted, amortized, and mitigated. The goal of these reports should be to let us know about the stuff we cant' account for...
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

How does arson of private houses fit into that equation?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:How does arson of private houses fit into that equation?


You know, if you want to talk, that's fine. But actually say something if you want me to respond. Actually reading my posts would be nice too, but I know not to expect too much.

Most of the private homes targeted by Eco terrorism arson are models still owned by the developer. So, it would fit pretty neatly in my equation.

You can keep getting snippy about them, but I don't know what your problem is. They're terrorists, they get caught, they get sent to jail. They have killed few if any people (that I could find, maybe you have a trove of info that I don't), and while they cause property damage, it's no longer surprising. It's cost of doing business. Knowing that veterans groups might hide extremist groups is, well, news. It's new information. I can help prevent possible new outbreaks. It's probably not useful, but a report that hippies burn stuff down is just redundant. Eco-terrorists are media savvy. They know that killing people will make them look like murderers (which they would be), while property damage on insured property is seen as radical, violent, and illegal act, but one that draws light to their issue while not immediately repulsing more moderate elements of the environmental movement. As long as they don't kill anybody, they can claim that the acts committed by eco-terrorists are preferable to the crimes against the earth. I don't buy it, but some people do. It's why the right to life people really distanced themselves from violence. Is heckling pregnant teenagers making the worst choice of their life noble? Maybe, maybe not; but the argument that it's better than the wrongs of abortion carries a lot of water for some people.

Think of it this way, what would you rather have a report focus on: potential earthquakes in southern California, or potential earthquakes in New Jersey. Yes, the quakes in Cali are a problem and very bad, but they're not exactly hot news. Evidence that there were potential quakes in an area that has no preparation would be useful information.

Now, I'd rather have both, to be honest. While I'm not wild about the FBI tracking groups, it's their job and it's the real world.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I would rather them focus on real potential difficulties. Claiming antiabortion activists are potential terrorists is akin to claiming people from NY are potential terrorists. Its so broad as to be nonsense and does nothing except waste resources.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:I would rather them focus on real potential difficulties. Claiming antiabortion activists are potential terrorists is akin to claiming people from NY are potential terrorists. Its so broad as to be nonsense and does nothing except waste resources.


I agree, but the same could be said for environmental activists. Looking at extremism isn't a waste of resources, since more or less by definition there aren't too many extremists. How many people in the US support environmentalism/abortion bans? Probably tens of millions. How many actively campaign, raise money, volunteer, protest, etc? Maybe a million or two for both. What's the actual dyed in the wool core for either cause, meaning those people for whom the cause is a vocation if not their actual job? Maybe tens of thousands. How attend meetings, purchase materials, or otherwise subscribe to ideals advocating violent activism? At most a few thousand, right? It's not horribly hard in the internet age to keep an eye on what groups are doing, and in what direction their going.

I think the broader point you're making is right, in that the worst domestic terrorism has been out of nowhere. McVeigh wasn't a member of a milita, or a gun club, or PETA. He was a wackjob with a credit card.

Anyway, it's hard to realize that causes you believe in, and groups you support, can sponsor or condone violence and terrorism, but it's a reality. Every group has demons.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Well, my point is more that they ceased moving forward on a report on the enviros but kept going on the abortionists. Both have had a nutjob or two. Both have millions of supporters. But only one side gets noted in a report (which the administration has not backed off actually). Its politically creepy.

EDIT: As someone who is active in either the abortion or enviro arena, I just find it...creepy (ok truth be told Napolitano strikes me as a complete idiot and I have absolutely no faith in her at all...'manmade disaster' sucker please).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/05 17:17:22


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:Well, my point is more that they ceased moving forward on a report on the enviros but kept going on the abortionists. Both have had a nutjob or two. Both have millions of supporters. But only one side gets noted in a report (which the administration has not backed off actually). Its politically creepy.


Welcome to partisan politics.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

True dat

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

It sucks, because part of me really did think it was possible that Obama would be different, but he's not. After 8 years of watching head shops, erotica websites, and the like get hassled by the feds, now it's going to be somebody on the other side. That's not progress, that's a vicious cycle.

I think it is possible that there are legitimate reasons to stop the report on eco-terrorists, both for the reasons I outlined above and because with a more liberal trend in the the US and democratic control of government means that those groups may lean more towards dialogue and legitimate activism. It's unlikely, but possible. It's still bad politics to pull a bait and switch.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Its a concern to me as its losing focus on real and likely terrorists. Sure there's a small chance of an eco terorrist, and they should have some resources put out to investigate by the FBI and locals when a crime occurs (same to same for Anti-abortion). In the mean time you have absolutely open borders where any terrorist could walk in or drive up with a back pack nuke and blow a city to smithereens. not to mention that whole war going on, on the Mexican border with Phoenix becoming the kidnap capital of the US.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:Its a concern to me as its losing focus on real and likely terrorists. Sure there's a small chance of an eco terorrist, and they should have some resources put out to investigate by the FBI and locals when a crime occurs (same to same for Anti-abortion). In the mean time you have absolutely open borders where any terrorist could walk in or drive up with a back pack nuke and blow a city to smithereens. not to mention that whole war going on, on the Mexican border with Phoenix becoming the kidnap capital of the US.


Well, yeah, but the whole point was to deal with domestic terror threats. We have whole other departments to deal with international stuff.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Terrorist blowing up Washington is pretty domestic to me

here's a terrorist threat if there ever was one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HazUvFXY2X4

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/05 19:58:27


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Frazzled wrote:Terrorist blowing up Washington is pretty domestic to me


And you say you're from Texas.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

again true dat

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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