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Ok, I am completely new at this game and after spending some time pouring over the various Codexes, I am stuck between Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. I love Tzeentch a lot (both in fluff and his units) and attempted to put together a 1500 point army in his name. I ask you veterans of this game to take a newb/noob under your wings enough to evaluate this and make suggestions to help me fix it.

HQ:
-Fateweaver
-Herald of Tzeentch x2
*Chariot, Bolt of Tzeentch, We are Legion, Master of Sorcery, Chaos Icon

Troops:
-Pink Horror x9
*Changeling
-Pink Horror x9
-Pink Horror x8

Elites:
-Flamers of Tzeentch x3

Heavy Support
-Daemon Prince
*Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt of Tzeentch, Daemonic Flight
-Soul Grinder

Total: 1490

Hey there good to see a new player I like the idea of a pure tzeentch list but unfortunately with this list you're going to have a big problem with vehicles, and I'm pretty sure you can't take 2 herald of tzeentchs and fateweaver because they're all HQ choices and you can only use 2. The troop lineup is good although you will be having a lot of problems with CC so maybe it'd be a good idea to have a squad or two of bloodletters in there. For heavy support I'd have to say that daemon princes with just what you've got are a bad idea because they don't have wings and will just be running every turn. I'd personally use 2 soul grinders instead with the tongue upgrade to help against vehicles

In addition I would also say that chaos daemons are a difficult first army to play with and chaos space marines are top tier and probably more viable, a lot cheaper too since you're paying a lot of money for just 5 horrors.

I dont know much about chaos demons as a whole but i do know flamers own and changelings arent too bad i played a GAME VS THEM AND 3 SQUADS OF FLAMERS they took out 2 combat squads and some servitors with 1 unit of them and then the second one killed a squad of terminators and wounded calgar changelings ive fought but havent seen much good vs them they did hold up a combat squad by pure luck thow i would try and get more cc orieneted troops insted of changeling spam (plaguebearers arent bad at objective holding either)

If your gona do chaos marienes thousand sons arent bad with there ap 3 bolters and obliterators would fit in there fluff wise (sort of) as well for hq id suggest ahrim or a sorceror as tzeentch is about using lots of magic (and tzeentch sorcerers can get 2 psychic powers insted of 1)

I would consider discounting the advice that Zoot has given you. He obviously is speaking off the cuff about his demon knowledge. Sorry Zoot I just do not want to see him driven in the wrong direction.

Heralds are fine and you already know that you can take 2 for 1 HQ slot.

Fateweaver might be a little expensive for 1500 points, he gives people trouble no matter what but you probably want to consider fitting more units in at 1500. Possibly adding 2 more heralds on chariots for 10 more wounds and some more horrors or flamers.

Demons always have trouble with tanks, but Tzeentch is the best when it comes to dealing with mech. You have 5 bolts in there which could be enough. Again try and fit a few more into the list for those armies that use nothing but transports for thier troops. You do not want your horrors waiting around to unload with no soft targets to shoot at. Placing a blot in a few of those squads would give them something to do if there were no other targets.


For someone that is new to the game you have picked a strong list. I am impressed by what you came up with by looking over the different codexes.

Clay Williams wrote:I would consider discounting the advice that Zoot has given you. He obviously is speaking off the cuff about his demon knowledge. Sorry Zoot I just do not want to see him driven in the wrong direction.

Heralds are fine and you already know that you can take 2 for 1 HQ slot.

Fateweaver might be a little expensive for 1500 points, he gives people trouble no matter what but you probably want to consider fitting more units in at 1500. Possibly adding 2 more heralds on chariots for 10 more wounds and some more horrors or flamers.

Demons always have trouble with tanks, but Tzeentch is the best when it comes to dealing with mech. You have 5 bolts in there which could be enough. Again try and fit a few more into the list for those armies that use nothing but transports for thier troops. You do not want your horrors waiting around to unload with no soft targets to shoot at. Placing a blot in a few of those squads would give them something to do if there were no other targets.


For someone that is new to the game you have picked a strong list. I am impressed by what you came up with by looking over the different codexes.

I know fateweaver is expensive, but his ability sounded simply amazing and worth the points. However, I will take your advice and add more troops in. Do you think Screamers are worth it? They seemed very pleh (yes, thats a technical term ) to me, but I've never actually played a game yet.

Thank you all for the advice.

Screamers suck ... bad.

All the troop choices for demons are a good buy minus demonettes imo. You already have more anti armor than most demon lists so you should be ok. Hell I only take 1 guo and two soul grinders and I have done fine with my list.

If you have friends that play borrow models or proxy the list to get it where you want it to be and then buy it. That way you dont end up spending needless money.

Fateweaver is a solid HQ choice for a tzeentch list, is very fluffy, and makes your 4+ saves go a long way. What you really should think about is finding a way to get icon's in your horror squads, to aid in the rest of your army appearing. Also, dropping them to 9 models a piece is fluffy because 9 is tzeentch's number.

The demon princes make very good "snipers" because of their decent BS and 4+ save, but without wings they aren't very mobile, so I wouldn't take breath on the second one. Chances are he won't be close enough to use it that often. Just stick with the longer ranged shooting powers and you should be fine.

You also may want to consider taking a soulgrinder or two instead of the DP's. The soulgrinders are very durable, are good in CC (which your army lacks) and will also draw alot of the heat off of Fateweaver. Grinders can lock up units in melee very effectively, and their AV13 makes them difficult to destroy even with a powerfist. Their fleet makes them very likely to get into assault even with a bad deepstrike roll.

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Now, if you are talking about Tzeentch space marines, you can make a very solid list with 2x Tzeentch DP's with wings, warptime and whatever else you want. Then add in about 4 squads of Thousand Sons in rhinos, and a couple defilers or vindicators or obliterators, and you should be good to go. (Don't forget to give the aspiring sorcerers warptime or Gift of Chaos for extra fun!)

The advantage to going this route as well, is if you take two DP's, and a defiler, and some lesser demons, you could use Fateweaver as a DP, a soul grinder as a defiler, horrors as lesser demons, etc, etc, and you can basically get two armies with alot of models that can stand in, making both armies a little cheaper for you, and still giving you alot of variety on the tabletop.

Ok, I've made a few changes to the list at the top. I had to drop one squad down to 8 to fit in the Soul Grinder and Flight on the Prince, what do you guys think of these changes.

The SG's wargear confused me a little, I dont understand what it means by Two Dreadnought close combat weapons. Would someone please explain it?

A Dreadnought close combat weapon is essentially a power fist for vehicles. It means that you get doubled strength and you ignore saves in CC. Also, having 2 gives an extra attack, just like on a Dreadnought or Defiler.