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Hi,
I've had this rulebook kicking about for a good few years and was wondering
if anyone had tried it?
It's called Stargrunt,by Ground Zero Games in the UK.It's 25mm rules
but they can be adaptable to other scales. I've never really
managed to get round to reading it, it seems very involved and
complex.
It's set at the point where mankind is begining to explore deep
space,but also still fighting each other at the same time! Anyway,
an explorer ship disappears and things get worrying....
From what I have read, all earth forces' technology is based on modern
military equipment, but slightly futurised!
The company produces its own figures covering all earth forces all in
truescale 25mm. The quality ranges from pretty good to iffy,but!
they are cheap.
Anyway,has anyone played it, and what are the conclusions?

It's a great game. You can also convert your friends to playing it for free since it's available as a legal download from their site www.gzg.net
Ground Zero Games would like if you bought their minis (their new 15mm are especially nice) but you can use whatever you've got. The game plays well in 15mm or 25mm.

I like it because you and your opponent have to work on building your armies without points. You fight for objectives that you don't reveal until after the game. Did your light force actually win the game simply by surviving for 4 turns? Maybe. It's a more cooperative game than many that are out there.

I highly recommend SG2 and actually all the GZG games.

Thanks for the info.
I do have quite a few of their minis.
Sometimes they can seem very very basic
in design,but they do produce some
surprisingly good results when you paint
them up.And as I said, their prices are
good.Now to see if I can wean my local
club off solid 40k content!

I heard about this game from Meeples and Miniatures and then forgot all about it... i'll have to take a look at the stuff I have downloaded for it. This topic has reignited my interest in it.

One of the big things in SG2 is suppression. You shoot the heck out of an enemy unit (actually killing them is not that common from weapons fire----but you can make 'em hold their position) and then you move another team(s) up into assault and take 'em hand to hand.

Also you can 'run' which gives you a random dice roll of distance. Think you can make it across that road before you're seen and shot at? Commit to it and see what the dice have to say. Really cool mechanic.

I know 40k 5th didn't 'steal' these ideas but they are bringing in or bringing back a lot of SG2 type rules that make the game a little more than who has the best guns, armor saves and magic wargear.

A mate put me onto this back in the 90s (3rd ed 40k was in full swing). Enough that I shelled out for a small NSL force (but I also have an NSL fleet for Full Thrust).

It's a fun game. Alternate unit activation (not all of mine then all of yours).

Unit quality is also another big thing.

Models are nice and the infantry even make nice "true scale" 40k IG (next to marines).

SG2 is a very nice system although the layout of the rules is a bit clunky (it can take a few reads through to get the idea) and it's a bit too dependant on counters.

On the plus though, it represents infantry well without getting bogged down. Unit quality and motivation are much bigger performance factors than weaponry (as it should be) and the range of unit quality is MUCH bigger than 40K. It also represents the chain of command very nicely on the tabletop.

I love this game its great i can highly recommend it i have had it for over 10 years now i am currently playing with 15mm sci fi WW2 Germans with mechs and power armour. it is a bit of a counter heavy game though but also it is a really easy set of rules to learn plus its not a bucket o dice game.

Another really cool thing about SG2 is the size of forces you can play with and have a good game. You can field maybe 30-40 models and get a decent feel of moving several squads to an objective. Like I said earlier, I like the objective system and how the game is kind of scenario friendly. You can do that (scenarios) with just about any game but it's easier to get buy-in when the game's designed around each force having a mission other than (completely crush the other guy's army).

i read your post downloaded it . went to staples printed it out and had it bound. very cool . i had know idea its from 1996 . in it it talks about BUGS DONT SURF a alien expasion. did it ever come out ?? i bought a metric but load of REBELMINATURES.COM 15mm sci fi terran marines and there new drop ship. they have a lot of cool vechiles and new rebel figs that will work great for this game . i like how they keep every thing generic so you make up your own forces . i also picked up a bunch of KHURASAN MINATURES "SPACE DEMONS" there really aliens from aliens . they look great and theres even a 15mm queen alien . i bought all hopefully i can recreate a colonial marines BUG HUNT!!! very cool stuff . any one still play??

The closest thing to Bugs Don't Surf is a fan produced set of rules for Phalons (snail-like aliens you can learn more about in Full Thrust - the free starship rules download for Ground Zero Games).
Here that is: http://www.hyperbear.com/sg2/sg2-bds.html

I play DS2 and Stargrunt2 but mainly DS2 right now. Thinking about picking up some of the rulebooks (you can buy the book from some 2nd hand dealers for $5 apiece) and taking them to the FLGS.

Another thing I'd like to point out is how nice both the 25mm and 15mm StarGrunt miniatures are. I bought a set just to see and they are very nicely detailed. Playing in 15mm also makes the ranges look a little more 'realistic' said the guy who pushed little metal soldiers around on a fake alien world

MattRendar wrote:i read your post downloaded it . went to staples printed it out and had it bound. very cool . i had know idea its from 1996 . in it it talks about BUGS DONT SURF a alien expasion. did it ever come out ?? i bought a metric but load of REBELMINATURES.COM 15mm sci fi terran marines and there new drop ship. they have a lot of cool vechiles and new rebel figs that will work great for this game . i like how they keep every thing generic so you make up your own forces . i also picked up a bunch of KHURASAN MINATURES "SPACE DEMONS" there really aliens from aliens . they look great and theres even a 15mm queen alien . i bought all hopefully i can recreate a colonial marines BUG HUNT!!! very cool stuff . any one still play??

I still play Star Grunt 2 quite alot in 15mm oh and old crow minitaures do some cool 15mm sci fi tanks and attack craft if your after some as for you question about Bugs dont surf they never got around to making it sadly

I just got into this game and find it very interesting, bought bunch of NAC, and ESU troops and can't wait to get them all painted up and give the game a try.

Although "Bugs don't Surf" never got a release, it is not that hard to cook up something, just try to avoid "humans is weird suits". The Phalons rules give some good ideas you can adapt

Play around with command and morale - weapons and armour are generic anyway.

The bugs we use do not bother about casulties and so ignore morale while in a command radius of a leader (hivemind, anyone) outside this range their actions are diced for. So you get a relentless horde, till its command is shot away then its mop up time.

Points and balance are not really an issue with SG, whereas a little thought to produce challenging scenarios does reap gaming rewards.

Hive mind idea is pretty cool.

I just picked up a human force from Rebel Minis and am looking at Khurasan Minis alien cat-men (kzin-like if you know the books) as an opposing force.
All of that's in 15mm. Lots of cool sci-fi junk in 15mm nowadays and SG2 is a great rule set to play with.

privateer4hire wrote:Hive mind idea is pretty cool.

I just picked up a human force from Rebel Minis and am looking at Khurasan Minis alien cat-men (kzin-like if you know the books) as an opposing force.
All of that's in 15mm. Lots of cool sci-fi junk in 15mm nowadays and SG2 is a great rule set to play with.

Awesome i just got some 15mm crusties from GZG myself how are you going to use your alien cat-men (Kzin-like) are you going to make up some rules or just use them as a normal human squad.

OLDGAMER wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:...how are you going to use your alien cat-men (Kzin-like) are you going to make up some rules or just use them as a normal human squad.

I've got the Felids primed and their two vehicles (they won't see much use except maybe as objectives) painted. Still debating on how to field them. Probably use them as normal humans but maybe have strange org charts. Maybe I'll have them operate in smaller units than my human forces to reflect their psychology.

Has there been any progress in producing a point system for Stargrunt? I remember reading a statement that a point system hadn't been included, but the rationale for that absence really seemed to be sour grapes of the "Well, we'd do it but the players would mess it up anyway, so we won't" variety.

As far as I know there are still no points values, in Stargrunt.

As for "sour grapes" I think it is more a case of GZG standing by the generic nature of their systems and let players do their own thing. PV's are generally very subjective (usually the designers whims and preferences) and hard to define. I never bought into GW's claims of formulae and complicated math to derive numbers, they seem to decide numbers by potential popularity and sales.

Stargrunt essentially is a game of scenarios and at least for me and our group some of our best games have had unbalanced forces offset by different victory conditions. Even these conditions tend to be more for scene setting and as long as both sides have a blast who cares.

wilycoyote wrote:As far as I know there are still no points values, in Stargrunt.

As for "sour grapes" I think it is more a case of GZG standing by the generic nature of their systems and let players do their own thing. PV's are generally very subjective (usually the designers whims and preferences) and hard to define. I never bought into GW's claims of formulae and complicated math to derive numbers, they seem to decide numbers by potential popularity and sales.

Stargrunt essentially is a game of scenarios and at least for me and our group some of our best games have had unbalanced forces offset by different victory conditions. Even these conditions tend to be more for scene setting and as long as both sides have a blast who cares.

I wish me and the Coyote lived in the same area. I almost wrote this same response. GZG has 2 points-based games in addition to SG2 as a non-points game. All three games are great IMO. Scenario play and even swapping sides once you've played a game are part of the fun of StarGrunt2. Keeping the other guys' heads down is the primary goal until you can get some dudes in hand to hand to take them out. Plus you could do a kabillion times worse than SG2 as a free rules set.

Got a handful of folks at the LGS interested eough to play a demo game of StarGrunt 2 today. We eyeballed some Star Wars minis (stormtroopers versus rebel troopers) and played out a scenario in about 90 minutes give or take. I had to look up the rules a lot since it's been awhile since I had played anything other than 40k or FoW. Felt good to run folks through something where you can stat up your stuff, pick and objective and go for it.

I am constantly on the lookout for new ways to play Stargrunt and given the oodles of WW2 figures out there in 15mm thought can I come up with a hybrid?

Answer, perhaps a version based on the Harry Turtledove World War series (basically galactic lizards invade the earth in 1942).

The Lizards are effectively armed as today or near future so are easily modelled in to the game.

I was looking for ideas for the various human nations to make competitive fun games - possibly reduced firepower , possibly larger squads, better leadership for Germans, fanatic Japanese and so on

Of course the spin off may be to try larger scenarios in Dirtside

WilyC

I've played a few games of Stargrunt using the GZG mini's. Good fun. Played one vietnam era game too.

Most of my games came from converting rules of 40k 3rd ed. to stargrunt and getting some people to try it. Actually played pretty regularly when I lived down in Anahiem. Haven't played it in 10 years or so though.

Still got a bunch (a platoon of each army) of the mini's unpainted just waiting for some love.

Wow good old stargrunt 2 i havent played stargrunt 2 in a over a year nice to see some interest in it still i still have loads of 15mm and 25mm GZG miniatures for stargrunt and the old hard copy rule book i got in the 90s its bit well read and battered but still good i think i mite have to drag it out and give it a go again

Never a better time to rediscover the joys of Stargrunt.

The new GZG 15mm's are great and there seems to be a boom in sci-fi 15's anyway. Rebel minis, Khurusan any many others make holding onto cash hard.

Best of all unlike 40k, I do not have to pay the through nose for the latest super codex/squad/vehicle/model. The rules I bought all those years ago (backed by the free pdf) and whatever minis I have to hand still give everyone a great enjoyable night of gaming