Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With the master of the fleet (-1 to reserve rolls), massed fire toward 5+ saves, and the ability to field such a variety of forces (could go all troops, all vehicles, or combo), can daemons with their very specialized, entirely deepstriking army, beat gaurd?

Just wondering what you all thought?

Please give reasons why you think the way you do.

Yes.

You CAN beat guard. but they do make a bit of a fight out of it. you have to hope and pray they don't' have two fleet boys and bring a lot of shooting as your first drop so you can soften up there lines because chances are you wont be getting the other half of your army any time soon.

Sure, deamons have many different builds, they just need to shift playstyles a bit to account for the addition of another heavilly mechanized army to the list of contendors.

I can see Fiends of Slaneesh doing well since they can drop in beyond standard mystic range and still be inside charge range.

Like most armies, i think that the addition of guard will just shift the optimum all comers build to one that can deal with the withering barrage of shooting guard can lay down.

I played against a Tau army designed to shoot as much as possible. My wrong wave came in first and everything scattered back. None of my reserves started coming in until turn 4. My dice were gakk all but I still won, so yes daemons can beat guard.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I played against a Tau army designed to shoot as much as possible. My wrong wave came in first and everything scattered back. None of my reserves started coming in until turn 4. My dice were gakk all but I still won, so yes daemons can beat guard.

G

How is anecdotal evidence about a single game where you beat an army that (1) isn't IG, and (2) is bad relevant to whether or not Daemons can beat Imperial Guard?

Depends;

If the IG player brings the Inq/Mystic squad, with two equally matched players....then no, Daemons cannot beat Guard.

I would also state that as Daemons suffer most against mech and Guard can bring a bucket of armor, that with two equally matched players....no Daemons cannot beat Guard.

The mystic squad just makes sure it isn't a close game.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Depends;

If the IG player brings the Inq/Mystic squad, with two equally matched players....then no, Daemons cannot beat Guard.

I would also state that as Daemons suffer most against mech and Guard can bring a bucket of armor, that with two equally matched players....no Daemons cannot beat Guard.

The mystic squad just makes sure it isn't a close game.

I think that is overstating the case a bit, again the most popular current builds of deamons might have trouble against what seems to be the most popular current builds of guard but its allways hard to say any army cant beat another.

To say that two equally matched players in a mech guard vs kairos crusherspam matchup would have the deamons at a disadvantage is legitimate, but even that is a streatch. Killing kairos even with a pbs is not a gurantee ant until you do your mystics are drastically less effective.

Im not disagreeing that Guard has an advantage against deamons with sanctuary and mystics from a raider,valk or chim hull
just that it does not in any way make the game an auto win

bigtmac68 wrote:

I think that is overstating the case a bit, again the most popular current builds of deamons might have trouble against what seems to be the most popular current builds of guard but its allways hard to say any army cant beat another.

To say that two equally matched players in a mech guard vs kairos crusherspam matchup would have the deamons at a disadvantage is legitimate, but even that is a streatch. Killing kairos even with a pbs is not a gurantee ant until you do your mystics are drastically less effective.

Im not disagreeing that Guard has an advantage against deamons with sanctuary and mystics from a raider,valk or chim hull
just that it does not in any way make the game an auto win

I didn't state anything was an auto-win. Given that we roll dice in the game, anything may and can happen. However, when discussing strategy/tactics I always assume averages over time...rather than oddities. Else, there isn't any point in discussing anything.


Daemons have no melta weaponry. They lack ranged anti-tank. They will get the wrong half of their army 33% of the time. They will suffer mishaps which may cost them units before they get to move them. Against a mystic squad, they will be forced to deploy deep or take fire the moment they land (In nice clasped circles no less). Two equally skilled players playing those armies should result in a Guard win.

I think the better question is, "Can the new Guard beat Daemons?"

Massed Fire? WHat does that do, don't have the new guard book yet?

Guard forces Daemon players, from what I gather from talking to other players, to have more flexibilty in their Army. A lot of players have a fluff list or stick to just one god. Now it seems you may have to utilize more gods. It sounds as if Tzeencth is a must.