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Some players are saying that dedicated troop transport vehicles don't count as a seperate unit for deployment purposes in the dawn of war deployment scenario. Meaning that if, one had 2 units of space marines, and both had dedicated troop transports (aka Rhino's) .... they then can deploy all 4 units in dawn of war, where you are allowed only up to 2 troop units.

What am I missing here? I was sure thats not legal, but I can't find anything definative in the rulebook. Please help.

Erm, hav e you not read the rules for deploying in DoW? It covers this exact situation.

Oddly enough it's a fairly logical place....

Check the example given on page 93 for the 'Dawn of War' scenario as it clearly answers your question.

Skip this thread. I need a rule book thats got all the rules in one place and organized.

pg92 Multiple Unit Choices.... I hate this book, I can't find anything when I try to look for it the first, or second or even the third time.

Again, please read the section I referenced above.

This is a bit confusing I agree and was poorly done by GW. The problem is the rules are spread over 4 different locations and only once you have read them all, you need to keep what you have read in mind when you are reading the others so you can begin to understand how it works.

Three different circumstances:

Dedicated Transport with purchase Unit embarked:
For regular deployment and reserves a dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for are always considered one unit if those troops decide to be embarked in the vehicle during deployment. In the case of dawn of war, the infantry unit can deploy in the dedicated transport.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

Dedicated Transport with out it's purchased Unit embarked:
If the unit and the dedicated transport is deployed separately, meaning the troops are not embarked they are two units and there for have two reserves rolls. I the case of dawn of war only the infantry unit can be deployed.
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

Once the game begins the infantry unit and the dedicated transport are two units from that point on.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P92. Multiple Units

Note: Also Non-Dedicated Transports can deploy regularly or come in from reserves with infantry embarked inside; (not in dawn of war though)
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4


Plus if you need more reasureance on P93 in the dawn of war example they are deploying troops inside a dedicated transport.

You are correct Ghaz, thanks. I should learn to look at examples.

orangeknight78 wrote:This is a bit confusing

It's really not, since it's specifically addressed in the DoW rules.

Dedicated Transport with purchase Unit embarked:
For regular deployment and reserves a dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for are always considered one unit if those troops decide to be embarked in the vehicle during deployment. In the case of dawn of war, the infantry unit can deploy in the dedicated transport.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

Neither of those pages state that the unit and the transport count as a single unit.

Dedicated Transport with out it's purchased Unit embarked:
If the unit and the dedicated transport is deployed separately, meaning the troops are not embarked they are two units and there for have two reserves rolls.

This is correct.

I the case of dawn of war only the infantry unit can be deployed.
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

This is not.

A dedicated transport for an infantry unit selected as a Troops choice is a Troops unit in its own right if not deployed with the unit inside.

DoW doesn't require you to deploy only Infantry units, it simply askes for units selected from the Troops section of the FOC. So deploying the infantry unit and the transport separately in DoW would be perfectly legal, and would count as your two units of Troops.

Once the game begins the infantry unit and the dedicated transport are two units from that point on.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P92. Multiple Units

Not just once the game begins. They are always two separate units. They simply get to act together in certain situations, such as when rolling for Reserves.

Note: Also Non-Dedicated Transports can deploy regularly or come in from reserves with infantry embarked inside; (not in dawn of war though)
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

There is nothing in the DoW or Reserves rules that would inherently prevent you from deploying a non-dedicated transport with a unit in it, so long as the Transport was selected from the army's Troops section. Which, under the current crop of codexes would most likely make it impossible anyway... but because nobody gets non-dedicated transports as Troops, not because DoW prevents it.

Plus if you need more reasureance on P93 in the dawn of war example they are deploying troops inside a dedicated transport.

...and specifically state that the Transport counts as the second Troops unit...

I see what your saying Insaniak, thanks for the clarification. Is what I posted now correct?

Dedicated Transport with purchase Unit embarked:
For regular deployment and reserves a dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for are always deployed together. In the case of dawn of war, the infantry unit can deploy in the dedicated transport; but count as two troop choices.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

Dedicated Transport with out it's purchased Unit embarked:
If the unit and the dedicated transport are deployed separately, meaning the troops are not embarked, they are two units and there for have two reserves rolls. In the case of dawn of war both the infantry unit and the dedicated transport can be deployed, but count as the two troop choices.
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4

The infantry unit and the dedicated transport are always two troop units.
P.67 Dedicated Transport Box
P92. Multiple Units

Note: Also Non-Dedicated Transports can deploy regularly or come in from reserves with infantry embarked inside; in the case of reserves they have one reserve roll (not in dawn of war though)
P.94 Preparing Reserves - Paragraph 4


Plus if you need more reassurance on P93 in the dawn of war example they are deploying troops inside a dedicated transport.

the way the rule was explaned to me in a tourni is you deploy 2 TROOPS choices as writen in your army list so if your entry has a transport it makes no diffrance embarked or not its how it appears in you written army list

my problem came about as i had a DA RAVENWING which for 1 troop choice has 3 bikes+3bikes+1attack bike+1landspeeder (the rules state that they deploy as 1 unit but play separately just like a squad and its dedicated transprt)....................now x that by 2 and allmost all my army deployed at set up my apponant said that this wasnt fair but the judges resolution was you deploy as written in your list not as played on the table.

hope this helps
(i will settle for it just making sence)
lol

orangeknight78 wrote:Dedicated Transport with purchase Unit embarked:
For regular deployment and reserves a dedicated transport and the unit it was bought for are always deployed together. In the case of dawn of war, the infantry unit can deploy in the dedicated transport; but count as two troop choices.

Not quite. They count as two Troops units. They are a single Troops choice from the Force Org Chart.

Dedicated Transport with out it's purchased Unit embarked:
If the unit and the dedicated transport are deployed separately, meaning the troops are not embarked, they are two units and there for have two reserves rolls. In the case of dawn of war both the infantry unit and the dedicated transport can be deployed, but count as the two troop choices.

Again, two Troops units, not choices.

The infantry unit and the dedicated transport are always two troop units.

Correct.

Note: Also Non-Dedicated Transports can deploy regularly or come in from reserves with infantry embarked inside; in the case of reserves they have one reserve roll (not in dawn of war though)

Again, if the transport was selected from the army's Troops section, it could be deployed in DoW. And the process of bringing units on from Reserve is the same in DoW as in every other mission.

darkangels_rule wrote:the way the rule was explaned to me in a tourni is you deploy 2 TROOPS choices as writen in your army list so if your entry has a transport it makes no diffrance embarked or not its how it appears in you written army list

And as has been pointed out already in this thread, that's not what the DoW rules actually say.

You're allowed to deploy two Troops unit. Not two Troops choices.

So what you were told is half right... it does indeed make no difference whether the unit is embarked or not.

my problem came about as i had a DA RAVENWING which for 1 troop choice has 3 bikes+3bikes+1attack bike+1landspeeder (the rules state that they deploy as 1 unit but play separately just like a squad and its dedicated transprt)....................now x that by 2 and allmost all my army deployed at set up my apponant said that this wasnt fair but the judges resolution was you deploy as written in your list not as played on the table.

In this particular case they were correct. Ravenwing Squadrons deploy together... not because they deploy as one unit (they don't) but because they deploy at the same time. As this is a specific rule for a specific unit type, it would take precedence over the DoW requirement. When you deploy the first bike unit, you also deploy the rest of the squadron, because the RW rules say so.

But they always count as separate units.

So, to summarise:
It's explained in the rulebook

*Bump!*

Given the discussion above, can an HQ unit deploy in its dedicated transport during Dawn of War setup? If yes/no, could you kindly explain why for the ignorant?

I want to make a reasoned argument to my gaming group but they can't accept it without clear examples (i.e. I can't just say it's in the rulebook).

If someone takes the time to help me out it will be super appreciated!

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:*Bump!*

Given the discussion above, can an HQ unit deploy in its dedicated transport during Dawn of War setup? If yes/no, could you kindly explain why for the ignorant?

I want to make a reasoned argument to my gaming group but they can't accept it without clear examples (i.e. I can't just say it's in the rulebook).

If someone takes the time to help me out it will be super appreciated!

No, as that would result in 2 HQ Units being deployed.

Also, BACK FOUL NECROMANTIC BEAST!

Gwar! wrote:

CrabstuffedMushrooms wrote:*Bump!*

Given the discussion above, can an HQ unit deploy in its dedicated transport during Dawn of War setup? If yes/no, could you kindly explain why for the ignorant?

I want to make a reasoned argument to my gaming group but they can't accept it without clear examples (i.e. I can't just say it's in the rulebook).

If someone takes the time to help me out it will be super appreciated!

No, as that would result in 2 HQ Units being deployed.

Also, BACK FOUL NECROMANTIC BEAST!

I didn't want to start a new thread discussing the same thing So one question for clarification + another stupid question:

1) So you're saying the dedicated transport counts as a separate HQ choice even though the HQ is embarked inide it?

2) Do all dedicated transports count as Troops choices in Dawn of War setup? One of our members cited the example on pg 93 (see below) and refuses to let go of it. If he's not correct, how do I convince him otherwise?

"In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops). He then deploys an independent character from his HQ, joining the unit embarked in the transport."

Thanks again for the quick reply and apologies for putting you to the trouble. A lot of this stuff seemed self-evident to me but I need examples to back them up, not just rulings