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ive read the tank shock rule and the question as to wether a tank shocking vehical can avoid a powerfist or melta gun if it avoids coming into contact with that particular model in a squad. I find this rule bending sort of odd and i cant really see in the rule where it supports it fully.

anyone shed some light on this ?

You tank shock a unit, not just a few models of that unit. Any model in the unit may DoG against the offending vehicle.

the issue is in the rule i think it mentions "model" i dont actually have the book on me right now. that seems to be the argument. I would agree that anyone within the unit gets to make DoG.

InquisitorFabius wrote:You tank shock a unit, not just a few models of that unit. Any model in the unit may DoG against the offending vehicle.

I don't think that is true (Page 69):

"If a unit that has been attacked by a tank shock passes its Morale test, one of its models in the vehicle's path can stand and attempt to destroy it rather than move out of the way."


Only models in the unit that are actually in the path of the vehicle can attempt DoG. Which does mean you can attempt to avoid dangerous models in the unit with your Tank Shock move, but since you only get to pivot once before moving (and then move your Tank Shock in a straight line) it isn't always easy to accomplish.

see i also read this to mean its talking about one of the models within the path of that "unit" its talking about the unit not individual models.


i wonder how this would work with ramming a squadron... if only one model of a squadron is in the path of the ramming vehical is this the only one hurt and not the others ?

It is in the path, so anywhere that the Tank physically caused a model to be displaced.

zedsdead wrote:see i also read this to mean its talking about one of the models within the path of that "unit" its talking about the unit not individual models.


i wonder how this would work with ramming a squadron... if only one model of a squadron is in the path of the ramming vehical is this the only one hurt and not the others ?

It says "one of the models in the vehicle's path" so what are you trying to say? It clearly has to be a model that is in the path of the vehicle making the Tank Shock.


As for Ramming a Squadron, Ramming only causes a single hit against the vehicle that is being rammed, so only the vehicles you manage to actually touch with the ramming vehicle would be hit by the Ram. If the first enemy vehicle stops the ram then it ends with only that vehicle being hit.

zedsdead wrote:see i also read this to mean its talking about one of the models within the path of that "unit" its talking about the unit not individual models.

Sorry, but it is just talking about individual models.

Specifically, the part Yakface put in red. It mentions models that are in the vehicle's path. The unit is being shocked, but only thos specific models in the path of the attack can perform DoG.

i wonder how this would work with ramming a squadron... if only one model of a squadron is in the path of the ramming vehical is this the only one hurt and not the others ?

Yes. Ramming affects only the vehicle actually hit. The Ramming rules make no reference to spreading the damage around a Squadron, and specifically refer to the singular vehicle being hit.

would that include any model within 1" of that path ?

Also i find it hard to belive that a player could target 1 model in a squad of 10, forcing moral checks, without taking the chance of getting a meaningful DoG on it if they have models in there squad that can do so.

Tank shock is basically a close combat for vehicals... since when can close combat (other that IC"s) pick and choose who can within a unit assault it. Seems flimsy at best to me.

It can shock the entire unit, cause the entire unit to fall back, yet only spacific models can actually DoG ?


dont get me wrong... i run mech lists and this would benefit me...however ive never had anyone claim this rule so im a bit leary on using it to my benefit. Plus i admit it seems a bit wrong.

zedsdead wrote:would that include any model within 1" of that path ?

No as the rules state, just the models actually in the path of the vehicle.

Also i find it hard to belive that a player could target 1 model in a squad of 10, forcing moral checks, without taking the chance of getting a meaningful DoG on it if they have models in there squad that can do so.

Tank shock is basically a close combat for vehicals... since when can close combat (other that IC"s) pick and choose who can within a unit assault it. Seems flimsy at best to me.

It can shock the entire unit, cause the entire unit to fall back, yet only spacific models can actually DoG ?

Tank Shock is not assault for vehicles, in fact it doesn't share any of the same rules for assaulting.

The only reason it seems flimsy to you is because you don't care for the rules (which is your right, of course) but the rules are pretty clear. Yes, it is possible to only Tank Shock part of a unit and yet this can potentially cause the whole unit to fall back. Tanks are cool like that.

They certainly need to have some sort of bonus to make them worthwhile these days...

yak i appreciate the clarification... I dont think its because i dont like the rule.. as i said it actually benefits my armies I think it sort of felt wrong that a lumbering vehical making a desperate move such as diving head first into a squad of infantry to be so darn selective in who it targets. It also felt sort of out of place with how other 5th edition rules seem to work.

once again thanks for setting me straight

zedsdead wrote:I think it sort of felt wrong that a lumbering vehical making a desperate move such as diving head first into a squad of infantry to be so darn selective in who it targets.

If it was a lumbering vehicle, it wouldn't be tank shocking... everyone would just finish their cuppas and wander out of the way...

The way I would play it is any model forced to displace from the Tank Shot is eligible to attempt a DoG. However, that may include models that had to move in order to keep out of the 1" radius, due to this quote:

"...these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle..."

Are they not in the "path" as well?

zedsdead wrote:
Also i find it hard to belive that a player could target 1 model in a squad of 10, forcing moral checks, without taking the chance of getting a meaningful DoG on it if they have models in there squad that can do so.

If you and your squad were interrupted from your daily warmongering by a tank or squadron of tanks running by you and pancaking a man who was speaking to you about 30 seconds earlier....would YOU need to roll a morale check?

Che-Vito wrote:

zedsdead wrote:
Also i find it hard to belive that a player could target 1 model in a squad of 10, forcing moral checks, without taking the chance of getting a meaningful DoG on it if they have models in there squad that can do so.

If you and your squad were interrupted from your daily warmongering by a tank or squadron of tanks running by you and pancaking a man who was speaking to you about 30 seconds earlier....would YOU need to roll a morale check?

Im a space marine and sort of off my rocker.. The Emperor likes me like that. If i do pass moral, i would expect my even nuttier Sgt with his powerfist or my highly trained Multi melta gunner to run up and shove a fist or barrel into the port hole of some Nash Rambler driven by a bunch of wacky Orks. Not standing around scratchin there chins and scoopin poo out of there power armored skivvies.

synchronicity wrote:The way I would play it is any model forced to displace from the Tank Shot is eligible to attempt a DoG. However, that may include models that had to move in order to keep out of the 1" radius, due to this quote:

"...these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle..."

Are they not in the "path" as well?

Not by the strict definition of the term path.

Its something I would personally allow but I think when you look at the brass tacks only the models in the actual path of the vehicle are eligible.

Che-Vito wrote:
If you and your squad were interrupted from your daily warmongering by a tank or squadron of tanks running by you and pancaking a man who was speaking to you about 30 seconds earlier....would YOU need to roll a morale check?

The hive mind says other wise, but to be on the safe side..... , yep im still here.

At the OP, can you please care about the rules you are questioning!!!

Also, on a note, if you and ten friends lines up from on side of the road to the other and a car driving down one lane ran over half your line, is it meant to reverse back and get the rest? common sense, he gets his mate too, this is a metaphor not permission to stand on the road or run people over

Tank shock away fellas!

Wow, I never noticed this, I wonder if this was the same as in the last edition. Good to know!

Thanks for bringing this up zedsdead for I would of probably never noticed this.

Agreed, to me if a model has to move it's in the path of the vehicle.

G

synchronicity wrote:The way I would play it is any model forced to displace from the Tank Shot is eligible to attempt a DoG. However, that may include models that had to move in order to keep out of the 1" radius, due to this quote:

"...these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle..."

Are they not in the "path" as well?

I theorise that this causes a lot of confusion because GW in most other areas have removed a lot of "This model is this Model" from it's rules (Such as blast and Template weapons being able to cause wounds anywhere in the unit) so it is kind of a shock when they do specify it is specifically by a model by model basis.

Just my €0.02

Well, when your opponent has a longer string of troops, say to capture two objectives or provide cover saves to units behind it; if you tank shock one end of it, the melta gunner or power fist wielder at the other end 15" away shouldn't have a chance to DoG. It's just not practical. So I can see the reasoning for a model to model wording.

Gwar! wrote:I theorise that this causes a lot of confusion because GW in most other areas have removed a lot of "This model is this Model" from it's rules (Such as blast and Template weapons being able to cause wounds anywhere in the unit) so it is kind of a shock when they do specify it is specifically by a model by model basis.

Just my €0.02

Gwar... i agree and my reasoning for questioning it. 5th edition seems to have eliminated alot of the old 4th edition model isolation abilities.

synchronicity wrote:Well, when your opponent has a longer string of troops, say to capture two objectives or provide cover saves to units behind it; if you tank shock one end of it, the melta gunner or power fist wielder at the other end 15" away shouldn't have a chance to DoG. It's just not practical. So I can see the reasoning for a model to model wording.

QFT.

You mean 3rd ed model isolation abilities, 4th ed still had no blast marker sniping.

They have just removed even more - no range sniping, LOS sniping, etc.