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You mean that there is a possibility we didn't know everything about the vehicle rules when everybody was complaining about hull points?

Was refering more to the ap1, 2, 3 thing, dont think I've seen that mentioned anywhere in reference to vehicles?

tuiman wrote:Was refering more to the ap1, 2, 3 thing, dont think I've seen that mentioned anywhere in reference to vehicles but tell me what it means if you do know? Please.

I don't know what it means. I'm just saying that it is a confirmation that it was too early to worry about a rumored rule about hull points when we don't know all the rules yet.

tuiman wrote:Was refering more to the ap1, 2, 3 thing, dont think I've seen that mentioned anywhere in reference to vehicles but tell me what it means if you do know? Please.

Sounds like it means better APs will do better against vehicles? Definitely a plus for the game.

Gamers' Edition it is.

d-usa wrote:

tuiman wrote:Was refering more to the ap1, 2, 3 thing, dont think I've seen that mentioned anywhere in reference to vehicles but tell me what it means if you do know? Please.

I don't know what it means. I'm just saying that it is a confirmation that it was too early to worry about a rumored rule about hull points when we don't know all the rules yet.

I apolagize sir, I thought you were having a go at me , now I totally understand your post

As, I said, they all look quite good, just waiting to see how the NZ price will be

I feel bad for Eldar. They only have access to two lores while space marines and IG get four.

Gah, I must be a jaded PP gamer, because this did nothing for me.

I gotta wait. $60+ for a rulebook is eh. And who knows, rules might be bananas.

I will live without the cool stuff. I could care less about dice or templates, just show me the fething rules.

No clue on AP 1 damage chart or AP 3, BUT

Earlier in the thread there was a chatlog that mentioned an AP 2 damage chart:

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

now going by this we can only ASSUME that AP 1 damage chart will be more punishing (1-2-weapon destroyed, 3-4 wrecks, 5-6 explodes?) And AP 3+ table is less punishing (1-3 shaken, 4-stunned, 5-weapon destroyed, 6-wrecked??)

All speculation, but i could see it that way. any rulebook holders want to confirm/deny?

I want that Gamer's Edition. Templates are pretty cool, too.

Absolutely hating that servo skull tape measure the more I look at it. When it was rumoured before, I thought the idea sounded cool, but right now it looks cheap and nasty...

tetrisphreak wrote:No clue on AP 1 damage chart or AP 3, BUT

Earlier in the thread there was a chatlog that mentioned an AP 2 damage chart:

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

now going by this we can only ASSUME that AP 1 damage chart will be more punishing (1-2-weapon destroyed, 3-4 wrecks, 5-6 explodes?) And AP 3+ table is less punishing (1-3 shaken, 4-stunned, 5-weapon destroyed, 6-wrecked??)

All speculation, but i could see it that way. any rulebook holders want to confirm/deny?

Wow, that actually sounds pretty cool and more realistic to, I would be very happy to have a go if those are the rules

tetrisphreak wrote:No clue on AP 1 damage chart or AP 3, BUT

Earlier in the thread there was a chatlog that mentioned an AP 2 damage chart:

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

now going by this we can only ASSUME that AP 1 damage chart will be more punishing (1-2-weapon destroyed, 3-4 wrecks, 5-6 explodes?) And AP 3+ table is less punishing (1-3 shaken, 4-stunned, 5-weapon destroyed, 6-wrecked??)

All speculation, but i could see it that way. any rulebook holders want to confirm/deny?

I would assume it would only add a +1 or -1 to results of explosion.

AP1

1- vehicle shaken
2- vehicle stun
3- weapon destroyed
4- wrecked
5- explosion
6- explosion

AP2

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

AP3

1-2-3 Vehicle Shaken
4- Stun
5- weapon destroy
6- wreck

Im wondering if the Collectors edition will be really worth it. Wasn't the Fantasy 8th Edition Collectors rulebook cover considerably better than the normal counterpart? The collectors edition here literally looks like a picture swap.

Hopefully I am wrong

Dantalian wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:No clue on AP 1 damage chart or AP 3, BUT

Earlier in the thread there was a chatlog that mentioned an AP 2 damage chart:

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

now going by this we can only ASSUME that AP 1 damage chart will be more punishing (1-2-weapon destroyed, 3-4 wrecks, 5-6 explodes?) And AP 3+ table is less punishing (1-3 shaken, 4-stunned, 5-weapon destroyed, 6-wrecked??)

All speculation, but i could see it that way. any rulebook holders want to confirm/deny?

I would assume it would only add a +1 or -1 to results of explosion.

AP1

1- vehicle shaken
2- vehicle stun
3- weapon destroyed
4- wrecked
5- explosion
6- explosion

AP2

1-2 - Vehicle Shaken
3 - Vehicle stunned
4 - Weapon Destroyed
5- Destroyed Wrecked
6- destroyed explodes!

AP3

1-2-3 Vehicle Shaken
4- Stun
5- weapon destroy
6- wreck

But this is just my opinion.

These too, have merit in my opinion (and a fair shake easier to remember too!) now we wait....

tetrisphreak wrote:
These too, have merit in my opinion (and a fair shake easier to remember too!) now we wait....

I only think AP1 would be a little closer to my chart because on yours a Railgun would be a guaranteed wreck on any open top vehicle.

Dantalian wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:
These too, have merit in my opinion (and a fair shake easier to remember too!) now we wait....

I only think AP1 would be a little closer to my chart because on yours a Railgun would be a guaranteed wreck on any open top vehicle.

See my avatar? Now explain to me why that isn't a great idea!? hahaha.

As a semi-lobbying move, in the Tau's behalf, the railgun is a magnetically accelerated slug designed to do one thing - punch big holes in armor. A pen auto-wrecking an open topped vehicle (after a flicker field fail, we all know who uses the most open topped vehicles in 40K presently), SHOULD by fluff wreck or explode it. /lobbying over

I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

Wouldn't that hurt the Tyranids even more? Their main Anti-tank guns are what, S8 AP4? Not including a Warp Lance....

What about CC? Will we need power weapons now to do significant damage to a vehicle?

This is all very interesting

Noir Eternal wrote:Wouldn't that hurt the Tyranids even more? Their main Anti-tank guns are what, S8 AP4? Not including a Warp Lance....

What about CC? Will we need power weapons now to do significant damage to a vehicle?

This is all very interesting

Well I guess you would have to take tyrannofex's, but they do seem to be getting some new mc rules which will make them carve up in close combat

Dantalian wrote:I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

I think there will be a chart for AP1, AP2, AP3/4/5/6, and maybe one for AP- aswell.

crazyK wrote:I feel bad for Eldar. They only have access to two lores while space marines and IG get four.

Seriously. I will grant that the schools assigned to eldar are appropriate. Why IG should be able to navigate the warp better than the "Master Psychers" I hope is because there is some cool codex specific lore. The schools I'm not too against although rolling for random powers will make me pick up a different army. Not out of spite or any delusion that GW will care that there rules cause me to forsake an army I've loved. I just hate the mechanic. All that moaning aside I'll need to learn the rules and wait to how the game plays out before I whine too much more. Until then I will pray to the game design fairies for something fun.

Liking the look of the Gamers edition.. all depends on price

Doomhunter wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

I think there will be a chart for AP1, AP2, AP3/4/5/6, and maybe one for AP- aswell.

In the description, it only has dice for Ap1,2,3 though...not that Im saying the others won't exist, just that if they did, would they not have dice for them as well.

If it is only AP3 or higher, vehicles just got a whole lot better

tetrisphreak wrote:As a semi-lobbying move, in the Tau's behalf, the railgun is a magnetically accelerated slug designed to do one thing - punch big holes in armor. A pen auto-wrecking an open topped vehicle (after a flicker field fail, we all know who uses the most open topped vehicles in 40K presently), SHOULD by fluff wreck or explode it. /lobbying over

Actually a hyper velocity slug would probably act much like a sabot round against light armoured vehicles and punch straight through one side and out the other with minimal chance of actually hitting something important. You use HEAT rounds to kill light armour. Either way I can live with Railguns blasting AV10 skimmers out of the sky in game, its pretty close to auto dead at the moment anyway (3+ to kill).

Dantalian wrote:I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

A HUGE amount of rebalancing will be in order if AP4-6 can't hurt a vehicle at ALL. More likely AP4-6 have their own chart, AP4 through to AP- covers all the suppression type light anti tank weapons (S6 spam, S7 spam etc) and I would be fine with them only being able to wreck a vehicle.

Have we heard anything about immobilised results at all? It would boggle the mind if they completely remove immobilised as a result (vehicles having tracks taken out is incredibly common in armoured warfare) so I'm assuming for the moment that it has been combined with weapon destroyed. That would mean essentially you end up with a chart that is something like 1-2 temporary loss of function, 3-4 permanant loss of function, 5-6 dead, which is adjusted up and down slightly for different weapons, which I can live with.

Can anyone blow up the image of the psyker cards so they are readable? Eldar not getting any offensive powers is annoying but ok, I'm guessing Warlocks won't be able to buy powers (until the next book hopefully) since they aren't ICs and they are the ones who would be taking the damage dealing ones (Seers focus on support). Hopefully there is a race specific thing built in so that Eldar get some form of buff in this area anyway (Loremaster type ability maybe).
Also Daemons not getting any powers is pretty weird, they should get the offensive based ones at very least.

Dantalian wrote:I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

What about auto cannons (strength 7, ap 4)?

tuiman wrote:

Doomhunter wrote:

Dantalian wrote:I think the more important question here is we have damage table for AP123 weapons right? What about AP4? Will AP123 be the only thing that can hurt a vehicle? I would assume though that AP123 will be the only thing capable of wrecking a vehicle.

I think there will be a chart for AP1, AP2, AP3/4/5/6, and maybe one for AP- aswell.

In the description, it only has dice for Ap1,2,3 though...not that Im saying the others won't exist, just that if they did, would they not have dice for them as well.

If it is only AP3 or higher, vehicles just got a whole lot better

I hope i can kill vehicles with AP4/5/6, I have autocannons coming out of my ears!
One for AP- would work, i shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle with a shotgun!

A shotgun has S3 and can't penetrate anyway...

Just here to post a link to this:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?340923-2012-releases&p=6276245&viewfull=1#post6276245

If AP 4+ can't hurt armor then GK just got laughably crappy.

Comming late I may have missed it, but any clue for the cost of the colectors edition

Around $150.