Dear 6th Edition, we need to talk.

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Kain**

amanita wrote:
My concern is that I have little confidence in the doctor.

And you'll still give them money, if not for models then for books and video games.

**amanita**

Kain wrote:
amanita wrote:
My concern is that I have little confidence in the doctor.
And you'll still give them money, if not for models then for books and video games.

Ironically and perhaps sadly, not so much anymore.

**Kain**

amanita wrote:
Kain wrote:
amanita wrote:
My concern is that I have little confidence in the doctor.
And you'll still give them money, if not for models then for books and video games.

Ironically and perhaps sadly, not so much anymore.

Ciaphas Cain is always worth more money, don't lie.

**orkgoffrocker**

Kain wrote:
amanita wrote:
And a better codex would fix that, right? Why is there a need to rely on random, wonky mechanics to level the playing field?

Ideally codices would be living documents constantly updated and patched. In reality we can only get them every so often, and typically a new edition comes out a good deal before a new codex for an army does. So in the mean time a new edition should try to regulate some egregarious imbalances that existed before hand until a new codex can fully patch things up.

Saddy this was done in 5ed to fix that DA S/S were not 3++ and there CML was only 1 shot.
BA rhinos were 35pts and fast, that was fixed within a month or 2 of the codex coming out

All the FAQ's for Orks were nerfs, like they needed a nerf, the weird boyz auto hit str 10 psychic power would have 1 shot fliers

and all Nobs being characters would have be great for when some OP character challenges the unit you dont have to send the Big Mek or Warboss out to die you can just feed them a Pleb

For the love of god why is Artillery so Buff, toughness 7 grots with a 3+ and you can have so many i think its 17 in total

Just as a last point why can't Daemons use psychic powers from the 6ed rule book

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BoomWolf wrote:
orkgoffrocker-you keep insisting the fact everyone can now get hammernators as a game breaker, yet completely miss the point most armies don't even WANT them.

They are a good unit, but NOTHING MORE, they are not op, they are not game breakers, they are not impossible to kill, and they dont actually do alot of damage.

Sure, they can squish most stuff in assault, but as said, they need to freaking GET there, being slow as feth if they walk, or taking at the very least a full turn worth of free shooting if they deep strike.
And they cost you a metric ton! sure, you can throw 20 hammernators on me turn 1, but I can get 96 fire warriors for the same price (8 full squads)
And quick calculation will reveal that if you DS your 20 hammernators near them, they will kill slightly over half of them within the first shooting phase, then kill more on overwatch, and whatever remains will die on turn 2.
And FW are considered "not impressive", nor am I actually bringing any anti-terminator weapons or force multiplers, even a 50 point ethreal will bounce it to ~16 dead hammernators on turn 1.

Compare them to something like wraiths, and I'll choose to take on the hammernators every day. sure they dont have 2+ armor save, but 2+ dies in pain when outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1. (and armies like orks can outnumber them 10 to 1, rendering them even less of a threat)

Sure, they can take a beating, and they can deliver some strong melee hits, but they lack NUMBERS, and without numbers, all the high tech gimmicks in the world will lose.

1) I love that your example used 8 full squads when you can only have 6 at 1999pts DA and BA can have, sorry sorry always have FNP, But you are right Tau the most shooty army in 40k could allmost kill them
2) Anti-terminator do mean plasma because i think you will find 3++ makes burst cannons better at killing hammernators
3) Did i say anything about FW, i just want an army that is playable out of the codex, not using allies or having to buy Dakka jets or an ADL. Buying terrain as part of your army is the worst rule in 6ed and there are alot of bad rules mainly all the melee rules but hull points are really bad too if every vehicle had 4 hull points it may have been ok, but buggys and killa kans have 2 if they had 4 they would still die from 1 las cannon or get taken out by bolters but they would just last longer as a group maybe 1 would live past turn 1

**BoomWolf**

1-that's because I went for a simplified example and just threw pure numbers at you, without regarding FoC, of course in the real world its impossible, but then again I'll actually have other stuff around.

2-I was thinking more along the lines of S8 AP2 pie plates with interceptor as an answer, but sure, if you think pure dakka spam is better, I can go that do with dual burst cannon suits, pumping up 8 shots each, and moving WAY too fast for your termies to catch up.
And these are the obvious solutions, didn't even spend a moment of thinking for these two. and I am sure every army can pull off something along these lines (well, maybe not JSJ suits, but at the very least pie plates)
Or, their own assault units. preferable ones with high initiative, to jump at your termies.

3-FW stands for Fire Warriors. heck, figure out what you are arguing about before you make your argument.
Also, I find it amusing you assume the temies will wreck everything because you assume the opponent will agree with you that "fortifications are a bad rule" and will not play them against you. well, he might, and it screws up your stratagy.

Also, a terrain can screw you up if shrewdly placed, and so can high initiative bubble-wrapping, and a slew of other things.

**uberjoras**

Can we kill this thread? I think it wandered off the yellow brick road a while back...

**Selym**

This is the first time I thought an Ork Rokker could be stupid and uncool.

**orkgoffrocker**

BoomWolf wrote:
1-that's because I went for a simplified example and just threw pure numbers at you, without regarding FoC, of course in the real world its impossible, but then again I'll actually have other stuff around.

2-I was thinking more along the lines of S8 AP2 pie plates with interceptor as an answer, but sure, if you think pure dakka spam is better, I can go that do with dual burst cannon suits, pumping up 8 shots each, and moving WAY too fast for your termies to catch up.
And these are the obvious solutions, didn't even spend a moment of thinking for these two. and I am sure every army can pull off something along these lines (well, maybe not JSJ suits, but at the very least pie plates)
Or, their own assault units. preferable ones with high initiative, to jump at your termies.

3-FW stands for Fire Warriors. heck, figure out what you are arguing about before you make your argument.
Also, I find it amusing you assume the temies will wreck everything because you assume the opponent will agree with you that "fortifications are a bad rule" and will not play them against you. well, he might, and it screws up your stratagy.

Also, a terrain can screw you up if shrewdly placed, and so can high initiative bubble-wrapping, and a slew of other things.

1) So.... in RLwhat you said dose not hold water nice
2) I did not see anything in the codex that can do a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates
3) The more terrain, the better for the Hammernators this includes Fortifications

**Selym**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
1-that's because I went for a simplified example and just threw pure numbers at you, without regarding FoC, of course in the real world its impossible, but then again I'll actually have other stuff around.

2-I was thinking more along the lines of S8 AP2 pie plates with interceptor as an answer, but sure, if you think pure dakka spam is better, I can go that do with dual burst cannon suits, pumping up 8 shots each, and moving WAY too fast for your termies to catch up.
And these are the obvious solutions, didn't even spend a moment of thinking for these two. and I am sure every army can pull off something along these lines (well, maybe not JSJ suits, but at the very least pie plates)
Or, their own assault units. preferable ones with high initiative, to jump at your termies.

3-FW stands for Fire Warriors. heck, figure out what you are arguing about before you make your argument.
Also, I find it amusing you assume the temies will wreck everything because you assume the opponent will agree with you that "fortifications are a bad rule" and will not play them against you. well, he might, and it screws up your stratagy.

Also, a terrain can screw you up if shrewdly placed, and so can high initiative bubble-wrapping, and a slew of other things.

1) So.... in RLwhat you said dose not hold water nice
2) I did not see anything in the codex that can do a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates
3) The more terrain, the better for the Hammernators this includes Fortifications

1) The point is that there are better options than hammernators.

2) Which codex? If you don't have enough AP2, just spam cheap dakka. They'll die eventually.

3) Not if they're deepstriking (which you're complaining about), it forces them to go elsewhere, or risk perils.

**Kain**

I'd call this thread a trainwreck, but trainwrecks are legitimately horrifying to watch. This is hilarious.

**orkgoffrocker**

Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
1-that's because I went for a simplified example and just threw pure numbers at you, without regarding FoC, of course in the real world its impossible, but then again I'll actually have other stuff around.

2-I was thinking more along the lines of S8 AP2 pie plates with interceptor as an answer, but sure, if you think pure dakka spam is better, I can go that do with dual burst cannon suits, pumping up 8 shots each, and moving WAY too fast for your termies to catch up.
And these are the obvious solutions, didn't even spend a moment of thinking for these two. and I am sure every army can pull off something along these lines (well, maybe not JSJ suits, but at the very least pie plates)
Or, their own assault units. preferable ones with high initiative, to jump at your termies.

3-FW stands for Fire Warriors. heck, figure out what you are arguing about before you make your argument.
Also, I find it amusing you assume the temies will wreck everything because you assume the opponent will agree with you that "fortifications are a bad rule" and will not play them against you. well, he might, and it screws up your stratagy.

Also, a terrain can screw you up if shrewdly placed, and so can high initiative bubble-wrapping, and a slew of other things.

1) So.... in RLwhat you said dose not hold water nice
2) I did not see anything in the codex that can do a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates
3) The more terrain, the better for the Hammernators this includes Fortifications

1) The point is that there are better options than hammernators.

2) Which codex? If you don't have enough AP2, just spam cheap dakka. They'll die eventually.

3) Not if they're deepstriking (which you're complaining about), it forces them to go elsewhere, or risk perils.

1) I know ther are better options there called Flyers, all i have been saying is Hammernators are the only good CC unit everything else is a waste of points now

2) Can you give me an example of a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates

3) Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and BA Hammernators can DS on 2nd turn with 1d6 scatter re-rolled so...... risk perils LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol and BA can DS a Landrainder to hide behind

4) Your plucking a figure out of thin air and amusing facts, were i'm Paraphrasing games i have played and seen played in RL.

You can say that its Matt

Wards

codices, but the truth is GW had a chance to fix the GK in 6th ed i.e making there force weapon AP- not Ap3 and giving GK's a 6++. Then Rewritten every weapon in 40k to fix all the broken ones

, but instead we got Flyers and Fortifications further bending a broken game

**Selym**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:

1) So.... in RLwhat you said dose not hold water nice
2) I did not see anything in the codex that can do a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates
3) The more terrain, the better for the Hammernators this includes Fortifications

1) The point is that there are better options than hammernators.

2) Which codex? If you don't have enough AP2, just spam cheap dakka. They'll die eventually.

3) Not if they're deepstriking (which you're complaining about), it forces them to go elsewhere, or risk perils.

1) I know ther are better options there called Flyers, all i have been saying is Hammernators are the only good CC unit everything else is a waste of points now

2) Can you give me an example of a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates

3) Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and BA Hammernators can DS on 2nd turn with 1d6 scatter re-rolled so...... risk perils LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol and BA can DS a Landrainder to hide behind

4) Your plucking a figure out of thin air and amusing facts, were i'm Paraphrasing games i have played and seen played in RL.

You can say that its Matt Wards codices, but the truth is GW had a chance to fix the GK in 6th ed i.e making there force weapon AP- not Ap3 and giving GK's a 6++. Then Rewritten every weapon in 40k to fix all the broken ones , but instead we got Flyers and Fortifications further bending a broken game

**I can actually feel my IQ dropping when you post**

1) There are better TROOPS and ELITES than hammernators. There are vehicles that can gimp them too. Orks can spam hordes - something that hammernators are statistically terrible against. And as for you thinking that CC is a waste now, I've had several games where a CC unit changed the outcome of a game in my favour.

2) There aren't any in the Orks codex, that's why I said to spam cheap dakka. Read before replying next time. You do, however have a Str 8 Ap 1 weapon, and you have the SAG and the Zzap gun.

3) What the hell is wrong with you? Terminator squad of 5 is a minimum of 200 points. In a 1750 game, you'd have at most 8 units. Or four units of ten. They are terrible at objective holding, can be outnumbered by Orks to a ridiculous degree (meaning they will get swamped), BA an SM ones are Elites, so there'll be a maximum of three units of ten, who can't score (read: waste of points). Furthermore, DA hammernators DO scatter. They do not have a rule stating that they don't scatter. I have the codex here. If they want to not scatter, they have to DS within 6" of a teleport homer, which can only be on a limited number of units. The teleport homer has to be on the field before the turn in which the hammernators deep strike, meaning that they CANNOT teleport right onto you with any degree of safety on the first turn, and will be hard-pressed to do so on the second.
Also, DS'ing a LR is a terrible idea.

4) I'm not "plucking a figure out of thin air and amusing facts". None of us are. We're using hard facts, logic and mathammer. And you seem to have a very wonky idea of what happens in a game of 40k, especially given what I have posted above.

**Kain**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
1-that's because I went for a simplified example and just threw pure numbers at you, without regarding FoC, of course in the real world its impossible, but then again I'll actually have other stuff around.

2-I was thinking more along the lines of S8 AP2 pie plates with interceptor as an answer, but sure, if you think pure dakka spam is better, I can go that do with dual burst cannon suits, pumping up 8 shots each, and moving WAY too fast for your termies to catch up.
And these are the obvious solutions, didn't even spend a moment of thinking for these two. and I am sure every army can pull off something along these lines (well, maybe not JSJ suits, but at the very least pie plates)
Or, their own assault units. preferable ones with high initiative, to jump at your termies.

3-FW stands for Fire Warriors. heck, figure out what you are arguing about before you make your argument.
Also, I find it amusing you assume the temies will wreck everything because you assume the opponent will agree with you that "fortifications are a bad rule" and will not play them against you. well, he might, and it screws up your stratagy.

Also, a terrain can screw you up if shrewdly placed, and so can high initiative bubble-wrapping, and a slew of other things.

1) So.... in RLwhat you said dose not hold water nice
2) I did not see anything in the codex that can do a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates
3) The more terrain, the better for the Hammernators this includes Fortifications

1) The point is that there are better options than hammernators.

2) Which codex? If you don't have enough AP2, just spam cheap dakka. They'll die eventually.

3) Not if they're deepstriking (which you're complaining about), it forces them to go elsewhere, or risk perils.

1) I know ther are better options there called Flyers, all i have been saying is Hammernators are the only good CC unit everything else is a waste of points now

2) Can you give me an example of a Str 8 Ap2 pie plates

3) Deathwing Hammernators DS on 1st turn with no scatter and BA Hammernators can DS on 2nd turn with 1d6 scatter re-rolled so...... risk perils LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol LOL lol and BA can DS a Landrainder to hide behind

4) Your plucking a figure out of thin air and amusing facts, were i'm Paraphrasing games i have played and seen played in RL.

You can say that its Matt Wards codices, but the truth is GW had a chance to fix the GK in 6th ed i.e making there force weapon AP- not Ap3 and giving GK's a 6++. Then Rewritten every weapon in 40k to fix all the broken ones , but instead we got Flyers and Fortifications further bending a broken game

Do you get off on being stupid?

Does it please you to be the biggest, daftest, derpfish on the forum?

Do you truly, honestly believe that deep striking a land raider, one of the hugest models in the game, is a good idea?

Do you actually, honestly call hammernators, a unit only worth a single feth in melee, overpowered in the same game with the "three TL lascannons on an invincible flying brick for 130 points" Vendetta? Do you not get that thirty slugga boys who are much cheaper than a hammernator squad will almost always butcher the termies?

You just went full slow, never go full slow.

**orkgoffrocker**

spam deleted.

Reds8n

**Selym**

]

1) In the post to which I previously replied, you only mentioned fliers, not troops. Read your own posts before being rude. If you think that only shooty units are good, then why the hell are you moaning about hammernators being op? Furthemore, if you really hate 40k just quit. There are better wargames out there.

2) The mekboy and big mek can both take a kustom mega blasts. Str 8 Ap 1. And the SAG tears through my army like there's no tomorrow. Zzap can kill the user.

3) A single, slow, non-shooty scoring unit whose only use is to get into melee is a terrible scoring unit. And with hammernators it's even worse, because they can't handle the things an experienced wargamer will throw at them. And the DA guy who never looses: I seriously doubt that. Either his opponents are terrible, or they decided to not bring an army, because a non-scoring army will loose.

4) I've taken 2nd turn plenty of times and won. It sounds to me like you're a terrible wargamer, who has to come crying to an internet forum about his problems because he is too poor a player to fend off what is essentially a fairly terrible unit being made into an absolutely gak army.

**Farseer Faenyin**

Oh lord this is fun.

My 2 cents.

You'll find this game heavily benefits volume of fire over low AP in almost all army builds now a days with a few exceptions. The most reliable point for point killing with shooting is with volume over AP, because AP is sometimes not necessary.

For this reason, plenty of lists do well at destroying DA drop lists. Even moreso now with Dakka Broadsides with Interceptor.

**Selym**

Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Oh lord this is fun.

My 2 cents.

You'll find this game heavily benefits volume of fire over low AP in almost all army builds now a days with a few exceptions. The most reliable point for point killing with shooting is with volume over AP, because AP is sometimes not necessary.

For this reason, plenty of lists do well at destroying DA drop lists. Even moreso now with Dakka Broadsides with Interceptor.

Which is why my army shouldn't do too badly

(So many shots, so few dice)

**orkgoffrocker**

Selym there is no point replaying to you
1) blah blah
2) Read the codex kustom mega blasts are

Str 8 Ap 2 range 24" ass 1 and gets hot, most Orks only have 6+ save so they die alot like every game half the time without rolling the 5+ needed to hit or they could just keep the Deffa gun 1d3 str 7 48". The SAG blows up and kill half the Ork army. Both the Zzap Gun and SAG have 2d6 str so they roll 2 and 3 often and still can kill the user.
3) If you wipeout all your opponents scoring units which is eazy since there all

now and people only take them because there scoring you can only draw after that unless you table your opponent!
4) Mate i play 3rd, 4th and 5th ed fine, in fact i was so good if anyone called my army

i would say change accepted and ask if they wanted to swap armies and i will beat there face with there own army and they can play my list, i still won everytime.

That has been my point from the start! Rapid Fire has intensifying to the point of making assault pointless. Hammernators are the only wildcard because there retardedly tough 2+/3++ add DS to that and they can still make it into melee

**Selym**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym there is no point replaying to you
1) blah blah
2) Read the codex kustom mega blasts are poo Str 8 Ap 2 range 24" ass 1 and gets hot, most Orks only have 6+ save so they die alot like every game half the time without rolling the 5+ needed to hit or they could just keep the Deffa gun 1d3 str 7 48". The SAG blows up and kill half the Ork army. Both the Zzap Gun and SAG have 2d6 str so they roll 2 and 3 often and still can kill the user.
3) If you wipeout all your opponents scoring units which is eazy since there all poo now and people only take them because there scoring you can only draw after that unless you table your opponent!
4) Mate i play 3rd, 4th and 5th ed fine, in fact i was so good

That has been my point from the start! Rapid Fire has intensifying to the point of making assault pointless. Hammernators are the only wildcard because there retardedly tough 2+/3++ add DS to that and they can still make it into melee

You just replied.

1) Grow up. And stop being a troll.

2) The whole point of orks is to die en masse, and then smack things in cc. The intro to the codex even says it. If you don't like that style, don't play them.

3) Was that English? I've never seen a game wherein scoring troopers were a bad idea.

4) I highly doubt that.

EDIT: And as Kane said: Obvious troll is obvious.

**orkgoffrocker**

1) Not a troll, I is a ORK

2) I KNOW THERE MENT TO DIE, but now there useless in melee because the 2d6 charge now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge and even being 2" away you may still not get the charge thanks to the gay as sh!t rule Over Watch
3) All units in every codex the Elites units are just better, often Fast Attack are better (think flyers) and Heavy Support IS just Gold. The only time Troops are great is when you pay a Named Character tax (points) to move Elites,Fast Attackor Heavy Support to being Troops i.e DA deathwing, ravenwing, GK the whole codex, Ork warboss Nob bikes, CSM the whole codex, SW loganwing, there are more but you get the point

4) When i am training for a tournament i always play 250+pts less then my opponent and when ever i play nids standard i always let them have 500pts more

**Selym**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
1) Not a troll, I is a ORK
2) I KNOW THERE MENT TO DIE, but now there useless in melee because the 2d6 charge now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge and even being 2" away you may still not get the charge thanks to the gay as sh!t rule Over Watch
3) All units in every codex the Elites units are just better, often Fast Attack are better (think flyers) and Heavy Support IS just Gold. The only time Troops are great is when you pay a Named Character tax (points) to move Elites,Fast Attackor Heavy Support to being Troops i.e DA deathwing, ravenwing, GK the whole codex, Ork warboss Nob bikes, CSM the whole codex, SW loganwing, there are more but you get the point
4) When i am training for a tournament i always play 250+pts less then my opponent and when ever i play nids standard i always let them have 500pts more

don't use language like this on Dakka. Ever.
Reds8n .

**BrotherOfBone**

Necrons and flyers. Nuff said. Change it.

**MarsNZ**

Not sure why people keep feeding this orkgoffrocker, he's clearly either

a.) blatantly trolling you guys
b.) really incredibly bad at wargaming
c.) slightly challenged in a mental capacity
d.) all of the above.

**Selym**

MarsNZ wrote:
Not sure why people keep feeding this orkgoffrocker, he's clearly either

a.) blatantly trolling you guys
b.) really incredibly bad at wargaming
c.) slightly challenged in a mental capacity
d.) all of the above.

I'd say option d.

Mostly I'm continuing because I enjoy arguing.

**Kain**

text removed
reds8n

**orkgoffrocker**

spam deleted.

reds8n

**Selym**

1) Well in that case it's pretty safe to charge from 13", rather than 12". The 7" average does not have a 50% chance of you being forced to not charge. Please learn to check your mathematics. As for rhinos taking an entire horde? What the hell are you talking about? You have clearly never seen a rhino transport in action.

2) i)Powerklaws (Meganobz CC weapon) is the same as a power fist (x2 str, Ap 2), not Ap 3. Some power weapons are Ap 2 (Power Axes).
ii) Dakkajet is cheap anyways, it's not supposed to be the best. Non-fearless does not make a unit bad. Stormboys with Zagstruk are quite powerful. Learn to use them properly.
iii) I'm now under the impression that the only unit you think is any good is a unit of hammernators. Which proves you have either no combat experience, or you've never once won a game.
iv) Ravenwing are not gods. They never were, and never shall be. I play CSM, the army is quite powerful, and I win regularly.
v) Then why bother. The points you make are based on your own special interpretation of how things work, and have no basis in reality. You've tried to claim that hammernators never scatter when they deep strike, that they deep strike on turn one, that they can assault on turn 1, that they all have twin-linked special weapons, that DA cannot be beaten, that CSM are terrible, that Orks are terrible, and that 80% of armies have hammernators. All of which many of us here on dakka can prove are incorrect.

3) If only bodies win you games, then why do hammernators or GK win? They have gear, not bodies. Stop contradicting yourself, and actually try to make a structured argument. It is nigh-impossible to have a 3-year win streak when your opponent always has more points than you, unless they're an extremely poor player, and you're list building.

EDIT: And iirc, you also claimed that hammernators were making you auto loose. How on earth could that be true if you never loose?

**orkgoffrocker**

text removed
Reds8n

**orkgoffrocker**

Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
1) Not a troll, I is a ORK
2) I KNOW THERE MENT TO DIE, but now there useless in melee because the 2d6 charge now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge and even being 2" away you may still not get the charge thanks to the gay as sh!t rule Over Watch
3) All units in every codex the Elites units are just better, often Fast Attack are better (think flyers) and Heavy Support IS just Gold. The only time Troops are great is when you pay a Named Character tax (points) to move Elites,Fast Attackor Heavy Support to being Troops i.e DA deathwing, ravenwing, GK the whole codex, Ork warboss Nob bikes, CSM the whole codex, SW loganwing, there are more but you get the point
4) When i am training for a tournament i always play 250+pts less then my opponent and when ever i play nids standard i always let them have 500pts more

1) "Bumblefaggot". I shall say no more.

2) I have no idea what your point is here: "now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge". Before 6th you had a max charge range of 6". It is now 7" (7 being the average of any 2D6).
As for overwatch, you'd probably loose no more than three boyz. Not going to stop a full-on horde. If you don't like it, send in grots to take the overwatch, and then send in boyz.

3) i) Other codex's elites are supposed to be better. They are more specialised/elitist armies. You also have Meganobz.
ii) You have the Dakkajets. You have bikerz. You have stormboyz. Some of the most useful things in the game are here.
iii) HS in your codex or the others?
iv) Here are some good troopers: Ork boyz, TAC marines, Cultists, Scouts. ALL codicies have extremely useful troop choices without SC FOC swapping.
v) Deathwing is not king. Ravenwing is the same. GK was f***tarded anyways, so that doesn't really count. CSM Elites --> troops were troopers in the previous codex already. All that did is increase our reliance on good HQ's. Which we got.
vi) No, I don't get the point.

4) Now you're just flatly lying to try to sound impressive.

0) LTP

1) 6" of move and then 6" charge. 6th ed dose not make it 7" that is the average on 2d6 so half the time you fail and taked a 2nd round of insane rapid fire and overwatch, read the tau overwatch rules and say that again i dare you!. I can stop a "full-on horde" with 2 rhinos now, since they have to walk around the them since they can't blow them up untill the shooting phase

2) i) MegaNobZ Should be good now i know but since all the power weapons are AP3, but the S&P rule makes them just to slow, everyone can just walk away from them since they CAN'T RUN
ii) The Dakkajets is ok since it's a flyer, remembering it is the worst of the flyers, warbikes are poo since there over priced and not fearless and stormboyz WOW there great they move so fast they out pace the Big Mek with the KFF the twice the price of a normal boy and they can't have any weapons. you will have a nice big horde army paying 12-25pts a modle sounds like you would get out numbered by SM or Tau.
iv) Ork boyz are crap i have just been over this TAC marines are meah at best you have to take 10 SM to get any of the good weapons and then you can't have a las cannon or you waste the bolter shots, SW GH are way better because you can have 2 of the same special weapon. Cultists are free kill points for the opponent . Your right about Scouts if you infiltrate them and have 1st turn to can charge in and disrupt opponents gun lines my bad that was in 3rd, 4th and 5th ed, you can't do that now there is a gay rule to stop it.
v) Ravenwing are Gods now 4 shots from a twin-linked bolter, Dude GK are a really codex there what always win the Tournaments. CSM are crap thats my point!
vi) i know you don't thats why your still posting

3) The funny part is i'm not, i started doing it when i played a guy at my club, that thought i said 2000pts not 1500pts, ( I think he was lying since the 500pts was on wargear that was not WYSIWYG) i still won the game since wargear never wins you games bodies do. I had a 3 year winning streak i did not even draw and since i play 1-2 games every sunday that over 150 games and when i did finally lose a game it was at a mates place and noone believed him untill i turned up latter and told them how he did it.

1) Well in that case it's pretty safe to charge from 13", rather than 12". The 7" average does not have a 50% chance of you being forced to not charge. Please learn to check your mathematics. As for rhinos taking an entire horde? What the hell are you talking about? You have clearly never seen a rhino transport in action.

2) i)Powerklaws (Meganobz CC weapon) is the same as a power fist (x2 str, Ap 2), not Ap 3. Some power weapons are Ap 2 (Power Axes).
ii) Dakkajet is cheap anyways, it's not supposed to be the best. Non-fearless does not make a unit bad. Stormboys with Zagstruk are quite powerful. Learn to use them properly.
iii) I'm now under the impression that the only unit you think is any good is a unit of hammernators. Which proves you have either no combat experience, or you've never once won a game.
iv) Ravenwing are not gods. They never were, and never shall be. I play CSM, the army is quite powerful, and I win regularly.
v) Then why bother. The points you make are based on your own special interpretation of how things work, and have no basis in reality. You've tried to claim that hammernators never scatter when they deep strike, that they deep strike on turn one, that they can assault on turn 1, that they all have twin-linked special weapons, that DA cannot be beaten, that CSM are terrible, that Orks are terrible, and that 80% of armies have hammernators. All of which many of us here on dakka can prove are incorrect.

3) If only bodies win you games, then why do hammernators or GK win? They have gear, not bodies. Stop contradicting yourself, and actually try to make a structured argument. It is nigh-impossible to have a 3-year win streak when your opponent always has more points than you, unless they're an extremely poor player, and you're list building.

EDIT: And iirc, you also claimed that hammernators were making you auto loose. How on earth could that be true if you never loose?

1) I did the maths and you will fail the charge 1/3 of the time before snap fire so.... it is often worse the 1/2 since overwatch is real
2) i)You said yourself you can walk away from hammernators and they can RUN, where as Meganobz CAN'T ( as in they Crawl after a rapid firing unit and they can do nothing about it. I have seen Zagstruk do very well too but just as often land on a rhino and die or scatter 2d6 the other way and get owned from Surprise Surprise Rapid Fire
ii) Dakkajets are

poo since bolter work on them and you have to blow the armies waaagh for them to be any good if all flyers where av 10 they would be fine but most are av 12
ii) Hammernators are bull

OP there 40pts each and i have seen them at one time or another solo kill everything from Wraithlords to Greater Daemons
iv) So noone you have played has used Traitors Bane 4 shot bolters at 23" bikes on you with plasma that never fails to wound, WOW just wow your club is full of noobs. All we see now is banner bolter spam
v) I never said all Hammernators never scatter when they deep strike, what i sadi was DA and BA don't standed and the rest don't if you have a teleport homer. Any unit of SM can teleport turn 1 if they have a libby with them!

The whole CSM codex is Over Priced only 1 modle has eternal warrior and come on Kharn The Betrayer should have it ! Orks are terrible the only good units are Lootas and Grot artillery and there only good because the grot are 3pts and T7. 80% of armies have hammernators

that sound about right only Nids and Chaos can't have them
3) How is it contradictory i was talking about 5ed. You said yourself the GK codex is OP and Hammernators have 2+ so a power weapon is now a stick to them and and if you do get past the 2+ they still have 3++

**Selym**

orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
Selym wrote:
orkgoffrocker wrote:
1) Not a troll, I is a ORK
2) I KNOW THERE MENT TO DIE, but now there useless in melee because the 2d6 charge now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge and even being 2" away you may still not get the charge thanks to the gay as sh!t rule Over Watch
3) All units in every codex the Elites units are just better, often Fast Attack are better (think flyers) and Heavy Support IS just Gold. The only time Troops are great is when you pay a Named Character tax (points) to move Elites,Fast Attackor Heavy Support to being Troops i.e DA deathwing, ravenwing, GK the whole codex, Ork warboss Nob bikes, CSM the whole codex, SW loganwing, there are more but you get the point
4) When i am training for a tournament i always play 250+pts less then my opponent and when ever i play nids standard i always let them have 500pts more

1) "Bumblefaggot". I shall say no more.

2) I have no idea what your point is here: "now i have to be 8" away not 12" to charge". Before 6th you had a max charge range of 6". It is now 7" (7 being the average of any 2D6).
As for overwatch, you'd probably loose no more than three boyz. Not going to stop a full-on horde. If you don't like it, send in grots to take the overwatch, and then send in boyz.

3) i) Other codex's elites are supposed to be better. They are more specialised/elitist armies. You also have Meganobz.
ii) You have the Dakkajets. You have bikerz. You have stormboyz. Some of the most useful things in the game are here.
iii) HS in your codex or the others?
iv) Here are some good troopers: Ork boyz, TAC marines, Cultists, Scouts. ALL codicies have extremely useful troop choices without SC FOC swapping.
v) Deathwing is not king. Ravenwing is the same. GK was f***tarded anyways, so that doesn't really count. CSM Elites --> troops were troopers in the previous codex already. All that did is increase our reliance on good HQ's. Which we got.
vi) No, I don't get the point.

4) Now you're just flatly lying to try to sound impressive.

0) LTP

1) 6" of move and then 6" charge. 6th ed dose not make it 7" that is the average on 2d6 so half the time you fail and taked a 2nd round of insane rapid fire and overwatch, read the tau overwatch rules and say that again i dare you!. I can stop a "full-on horde" with 2 rhinos now, since they have to walk around the them since they can't blow them up untill the shooting phase

2) i) MegaNobZ Should be good now i know but since all the power weapons are AP3, but the S&P rule makes them just to slow, everyone can just walk away from them since they CAN'T RUN
ii) The Dakkajets is ok since it's a flyer, remembering it is the worst of the flyers, warbikes are poo since there over priced and not fearless and stormboyz WOW there great they move so fast they out pace the Big Mek with the KFF the twice the price of a normal boy and they can't have any weapons. you will have a nice big horde army paying 12-25pts a modle sounds like you would get out numbered by SM or Tau.
iv) Ork boyz are crap i have just been over this TAC marines are meah at best you have to take 10 SM to get any of the good weapons and then you can't have a las cannon or you waste the bolter shots, SW GH are way better because you can have 2 of the same special weapon. Cultists are free kill points for the opponent . Your right about Scouts if you infiltrate them and have 1st turn to can charge in and disrupt opponents gun lines my bad that was in 3rd, 4th and 5th ed, you can't do that now there is a gay rule to stop it.
v) Ravenwing are Gods now 4 shots from a twin-linked bolter, Dude GK are a really codex there what always win the Tournaments. CSM are crap thats my point!
vi) i know you don't thats why your still posting

3) The funny part is i'm not, i started doing it when i played a guy at my club, that thought i said 2000pts not 1500pts, ( I think he was lying since the 500pts was on wargear that was not WYSIWYG) i still won the game since wargear never wins you games bodies do. I had a 3 year winning streak i did not even draw and since i play 1-2 games every sunday that over 150 games and when i did finally lose a game it was at a mates place and noone believed him untill i turned up latter and told them how he did it.

1) Well in that case it's pretty safe to charge from 13", rather than 12". The 7" average does not have a 50% chance of you being forced to not charge. Please learn to check your mathematics. As for rhinos taking an entire horde? What the hell are you talking about? You have clearly never seen a rhino transport in action.

2) i)Powerklaws (Meganobz CC weapon) is the same as a power fist (x2 str, Ap 2), not Ap 3. Some power weapons are Ap 2 (Power Axes).
ii) Dakkajet is cheap anyways, it's not supposed to be the best. Non-fearless does not make a unit bad. Stormboys with Zagstruk are quite powerful. Learn to use them properly.
iii) I'm now under the impression that the only unit you think is any good is a unit of hammernators. Which proves you have either no combat experience, or you've never once won a game.
iv) Ravenwing are not gods. They never were, and never shall be. I play CSM, the army is quite powerful, and I win regularly.
v) Then why bother. The points you make are based on your own special interpretation of how things work, and have no basis in reality. You've tried to claim that hammernators never scatter when they deep strike, that they deep strike on turn one, that they can assault on turn 1, that they all have twin-linked special weapons, that DA cannot be beaten, that CSM are terrible, that Orks are terrible, and that 80% of armies have hammernators. All of which many of us here on dakka can prove are incorrect.

3) If only bodies win you games, then why do hammernators or GK win? They have gear, not bodies. Stop contradicting yourself, and actually try to make a structured argument. It is nigh-impossible to have a 3-year win streak when your opponent always has more points than you, unless they're an extremely poor player, and you're list building.

EDIT: And iirc, you also claimed that hammernators were making you auto loose. How on earth could that be true if you never loose?

1) I did the maths and you will fail the charge 1/3 of the time before snap fire so.... it is often worse the 1/2 since overwatch is real
2) i)You said yourself you can walk away from hammernators and they can RUN, where as Meganobz CAN'T ( as in they Crawl after a rapid firing unit and they can do nothing about it. I have seen Zagstruk do very well too but just as often land on a rhino and die or scatter 2d6 the other way and get owned from Surprise Surprise Rapid Fire
ii) Dakkajets are poo since bolter work on them and you have to blow the armies waaagh for them to be any good if all flyers where av 10 they would be fine but most are av 12
ii) Hammernators are bull OP there 40pts each and i have seen them at one time or another solo kill everything from Wraithlords to Greater Daemons
iv) So noone you have played has used Traitors Bane 4 shot bolters at 23" bikes on you with plasma that never fails to wound, WOW just wow your club is full of noobs. All we see now is banner bolter spam
v) I never said all Hammernators never scatter when they deep strike, what i sadi was DA and BA don't standed and the rest don't if you have a teleport homer. Any unit of SM can teleport turn 1 if they have a libby with them! The whole CSM codex is Over Priced only 1 modle has eternal warrior and come on Kharn The Betrayer should have it ! Orks are terrible the only good units are Lootas and Grot artillery and there only good because the grot are 3pts and T7. 80% of armies have hammernators that sound about right only Nids and Chaos can't have them
3) How is it contradictory i was talking about 5ed. You said yourself the GK codex is OP and Hammernators have 2+ so a power weapon is now a stick to them and and if you do get past the 2+ they still have 3++

Okay, by this point these things are obvious:

-You have never played a real game of 40k
-You are purely trolling
-You refuse to accept any argument other than "OMG EVERYTHING EXCEPT ME IS OP!!!"
-You're being a monumental douchebag

I'm outta here, because there is clearly no point in facilitating your complete failure-ness.