Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ph34r wrote:
Well, our troops are only worse if you used cultists :')

And actually, 10 cultists with stubber before was 45. Now it is 52, only 7 points more rather than a full 10.

Im thinking 10 militia with 2 flamers and a vox for 57 if you do the inspiring commander with vox command squads they will be alot braver or 52points without a vox for the same.points as the cultists but more damaging . they will be great take and hold troops. also with acceptible casualties its better to throw troops at objectives

 ph34r wrote:
Well, our troops are only worse if you used cultists :')

And actually, 10 cultists with stubber before was 45. Now it is 52, only 7 points more rather than a full 10.

But why would you field 10 cultists with a stubber when you can field 10 militia with a stubber and 2 nade launchers.

Also our elites didn't go down in price, beyond the weapon options. (10pts for a autocannon is really fair, as is 15 pts for a rocket launcher)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Well, our troops are only worse if you used cultists :')

And actually, 10 cultists with stubber before was 45. Now it is 52, only 7 points more rather than a full 10.

Im thinking 10 militia with 2 flamers and a vox for 57 if you do the inspiring commander with vox command squads they will be alot braver or 52points without a vox for the same.points as the cultists but more damaging . they will be great take and hold troops. also with acceptible casualties its better to throw troops at objectives

Voxes only get their pts back if you have big enough squadsizes, somewhere above 15 militia men are needed though.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Well, our troops are only worse if you used cultists :')

And actually, 10 cultists with stubber before was 45. Now it is 52, only 7 points more rather than a full 10.

But why would you field 10 cultists with a stubber when you can field 10 militia with a stubber and 2 nade launchers.

Also our elites didn't go down in price, beyond the weapon options. (10pts for a autocannon is really fair, as is 15 pts for a rocket launcher)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
Well, our troops are only worse if you used cultists :')

And actually, 10 cultists with stubber before was 45. Now it is 52, only 7 points more rather than a full 10.

Im thinking 10 militia with 2 flamers and a vox for 57 if you do the inspiring commander with vox command squads they will be alot braver or 52points without a vox for the same.points as the cultists but more damaging . they will be great take and hold troops. also with acceptible casualties its better to throw troops at objectives

Voxes only get their pts back if you have big enough squadsizes, somewhere above 15 militia men are needed though.

I also think that.now missile launchers are worth taking and will be swaping my.lazcannons out for them. will also look.more low tech uprisingy

on average militia ld is only 5.5 without a vox meaning typically after losing 2 militia we will lose more and preventing 2 dfrom running away it pays for itself

Five of my seven Militia squads have Vox-Casters and I wouldn't consider removing them.

For only 35pts (inc. the Command Net Vox) they stiffen my line considerably.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Five of my seven Militia squads have Vox-Casters and I wouldn't consider removing them.

For only 35pts (inc. the Command Net Vox) they stiffen my line considerably.

How do you get the 35pts?
A command vox 5 man command squad costs 40pts.
A militia 10 vox squad 45pts?

But true if the vox saves two dudes it pays for itself.

@ulfhendrir: missile launchers certainly are worth it, did a recent match with some of them on my disciples, they are really flexible.
Even nade launchers did well on militia in that match.
Granted it was a friendly unoptimized standoff with a friend.

Five Vox Casters and a Command Net Vox combined costs 35pts.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Five Vox Casters and a Command Net Vox combined costs 35pts.

Wellp, i need coffee in that case.

Melee militia/cultists with flamers and vox
ranged militia with twin grenade launchers and vox
command squad with autocannons and vox
disiples with missile launchers
maruders with sniper rifles and stalkers.
Valkyrie with renegade ogryns
and tanks

thoughts?

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Melee militia/cultists with flamers and vox
ranged militia with twin grenade launchers and vox
command squad with autocannons and vox
disiples with missile launchers
maruders with sniper rifles and stalkers.
Valkyrie with renegade ogryns
and tanks

thoughts?

HWT's with stubbers are also an option for ranged militia and the mortars are also still a sound option.

Autocannons and missile launchers are indeed reserved for our elites.

Marauders can still do anything, from PG sacrifical unit, to mainlaine, to sniper teams. (Basically they are our all in one solution)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tanks:
Leman Russes: Well since the pricedrop on any non bc leman russ, making some variants actually decent and worth a thought (especially the exterminator autocannon)
Hydras dropped massively, might aswell stock up now on them aswell.
Chimeras: well the standard ML /HB version dropped 20 pts. Autocannons also dropped 5 pts. Potentially now very decent allround tank and transport vehicle.
Sentinels: Also dropped in price, fairly decent. not to mention that since alot of heavy weapons dropped in price now a fairly decent choice.
Basilisks: (still cheaper then Earthshakers, for whatever reason. ......)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Melee militia/cultists with flamers and vox
ranged militia with twin grenade launchers and vox
command squad with autocannons and vox
disiples with missile launchers
maruders with sniper rifles and stalkers.
Valkyrie with renegade ogryns
and tanks

thoughts?

HWT's with stubbers are also an option for ranged militia and the mortars are also still a sound option.

Autocannons and missile launchers are indeed reserved for our elites.

Marauders can still do anything, from PG sacrifical unit, to mainlaine, to sniper teams. (Basically they are our all in one solution)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tanks:
Leman Russes: Well since the pricedrop on any non bc leman russ, making some variants actually decent and worth a thought (especially the exterminator autocannon)
Hydras dropped massively, might aswell stock up now on them aswell.
Chimeras: well the standard ML /HB version dropped 20 pts. Autocannons also dropped 5 pts. Potentially now very decent allround tank and transport vehicle.
Sentinels: Also dropped in price, fairly decent. not to mention that since alot of heavy weapons dropped in price now a fairly decent choice.
Basilisks: (still cheaper then Earthshakers, for whatever reason. ......)

troops are for screening and taking objectives so need to be mobile. so no heavys for them.
maybe renegade hws units but not in troops.

chimeras are for moving troops up quickly then holding enemies back from the troops holding.objectives so twin flamers are best imho.

for fast attacks i like hellhounds or spawn for a brigade.

I really hate to sound like a broken record, but y'all need Daemons.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I really hate to sound like a broken record, but y'all need Daemons.

No, not everyone wants em

(not to mention why pick daemons when renegade knights exist) or csm they are equally getting use out.

Atm though we are really better as a soup component then as a main part, sadly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Melee militia/cultists with flamers and vox
ranged militia with twin grenade launchers and vox
command squad with autocannons and vox
disiples with missile launchers
maruders with sniper rifles and stalkers.
Valkyrie with renegade ogryns
and tanks

thoughts?

HWT's with stubbers are also an option for ranged militia and the mortars are also still a sound option.

Autocannons and missile launchers are indeed reserved for our elites.

Marauders can still do anything, from PG sacrifical unit, to mainlaine, to sniper teams. (Basically they are our all in one solution)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tanks:
Leman Russes: Well since the pricedrop on any non bc leman russ, making some variants actually decent and worth a thought (especially the exterminator autocannon)
Hydras dropped massively, might aswell stock up now on them aswell.
Chimeras: well the standard ML /HB version dropped 20 pts. Autocannons also dropped 5 pts. Potentially now very decent allround tank and transport vehicle.
Sentinels: Also dropped in price, fairly decent. not to mention that since alot of heavy weapons dropped in price now a fairly decent choice.
Basilisks: (still cheaper then Earthshakers, for whatever reason. ......)

troops are for screening and taking objectives so need to be mobile. so no heavys for them.
maybe renegade hws units but not in troops.

chimeras are for moving troops up quickly then holding enemies back from the troops holding.objectives so twin flamers are best imho.

for fast attacks i like hellhounds or spawn for a brigade.

That vastly depends on what army you run, if you run them as a cheap cp battery and have pts left over there is no issue in takeing a 2 pts stubber.
Also if you run a gunline a 2pts stubber or mortar is good enough.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I really hate to sound like a broken record, but y'all need Daemons.

No, not everyone wants em

(not to mention why pick daemons when renegade knights exist) or csm they are equally getting use out.

Atm though we are really better as a soup component then as a main part, sadly.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Melee militia/cultists with flamers and vox
ranged militia with twin grenade launchers and vox
command squad with autocannons and vox
disiples with missile launchers
maruders with sniper rifles and stalkers.
Valkyrie with renegade ogryns
and tanks

thoughts?

HWT's with stubbers are also an option for ranged militia and the mortars are also still a sound option.

Autocannons and missile launchers are indeed reserved for our elites.

Marauders can still do anything, from PG sacrifical unit, to mainlaine, to sniper teams. (Basically they are our all in one solution)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tanks:
Leman Russes: Well since the pricedrop on any non bc leman russ, making some variants actually decent and worth a thought (especially the exterminator autocannon)
Hydras dropped massively, might aswell stock up now on them aswell.
Chimeras: well the standard ML /HB version dropped 20 pts. Autocannons also dropped 5 pts. Potentially now very decent allround tank and transport vehicle.
Sentinels: Also dropped in price, fairly decent. not to mention that since alot of heavy weapons dropped in price now a fairly decent choice.
Basilisks: (still cheaper then Earthshakers, for whatever reason. ......)

troops are for screening and taking objectives so need to be mobile. so no heavys for them.
maybe renegade hws units but not in troops.

chimeras are for moving troops up quickly then holding enemies back from the troops holding.objectives so twin flamers are best imho.

for fast attacks i like hellhounds or spawn for a brigade.

That vastly depends on what army you run, if you run them as a cheap cp battery and have pts left over there is no issue in takeing a 2 pts stubber.
Also if you run a gunline a 2pts stubber or mortar is good enough.

I love deamons or i would just run loyalists as traitors. but renegade knights are awesome.

also.with acceptable casualties athingand the low quality of fire we can throw static troops are a waste we need to get the objectives

Question What is better?
A. Leman Russ Battle tank
B. Leman Russ Demolisher

I do play aggressively, moving up and take objectives and if i get forced into defencives then demolisher im leaning towards

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Question What is better?
A. Leman Russ Battle tank
B. Leman Russ Demolisher

I do play aggressively, moving up and take objectives and if i get forced into defencives then demolisher im leaning towards

Good question. Ca will make demolishers cheaper but their d3 shots against targets under 10 modells make it kinda ehhh.
On the other hand, if you roll good it can delete enemy armor.
Then again the bc is just more reliable, even against small Elite targets.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Question What is better?
A. Leman Russ Battle tank
B. Leman Russ Demolisher

I do play aggressively, moving up and take objectives and if i get forced into defencives then demolisher im leaning towards

Good question. Ca will make demolishers cheaper but their d3 shots against targets under 10 modells make it kinda ehhh.
On the other hand, if you roll good it can delete enemy armor.
Then again the bc is just more reliable, even against small Elite targets.

yeah elites units would be an.issue.
I was thinging that its against a large squad for d6 or against a vehicle or large target which the shigher str, ap and damage.
That said bc has better range so will definately fire from the first turn and is cheaper.
Which is why the choice is hard for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Follow up.
With cultists going up in points but the vehicles coming down I'm wondering if their will be any change to my list at all?
I run them naked as msu anyway. milita are more viable now but need gear to make them useable and then they cost more anyway.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Question What is better?
A. Leman Russ Battle tank
B. Leman Russ Demolisher

I do play aggressively, moving up and take objectives and if i get forced into defencives then demolisher im leaning towards

Good question. Ca will make demolishers cheaper but their d3 shots against targets under 10 modells make it kinda ehhh.
On the other hand, if you roll good it can delete enemy armor.
Then again the bc is just more reliable, even against small Elite targets.

yeah elites units would be an.issue.
I was thinging that its against a large squad for d6 or against a vehicle or large target which the shigher str, ap and damage.
That said bc has better range so will definately fire from the first turn and is cheaper.
Which is why the choice is hard for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Follow up.
With cultists going up in points but the vehicles coming down I'm wondering if their will be any change to my list at all?
I run them naked as msu anyway. milita are more viable now but need gear to make them useable and then they cost more anyway.

Who says militia need equipment beyond the vox? Who says they need as msu a vox?

The recent pricedrop on equipment just makes militia itself more enticing since they get a good ammount of slots for it, but honestly a 10 man squad with vox or a 20 blob are just as durable as cultists.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:
Question What is better?
A. Leman Russ Battle tank
B. Leman Russ Demolisher

I do play aggressively, moving up and take objectives and if i get forced into defencives then demolisher im leaning towards

Good question. Ca will make demolishers cheaper but their d3 shots against targets under 10 modells make it kinda ehhh.
On the other hand, if you roll good it can delete enemy armor.
Then again the bc is just more reliable, even against small Elite targets.

yeah elites units would be an.issue.
I was thinging that its against a large squad for d6 or against a vehicle or large target which the shigher str, ap and damage.
That said bc has better range so will definately fire from the first turn and is cheaper.
Which is why the choice is hard for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Follow up.
With cultists going up in points but the vehicles coming down I'm wondering if their will be any change to my list at all?
I run them naked as msu anyway. milita are more viable now but need gear to make them useable and then they cost more anyway.

Who says militia need equipment beyond the vox? Who says they need as msu a vox?

The recent pricedrop on equipment just makes militia itself more enticing since they get a good ammount of slots for it, but honestly a 10 man squad with vox or a 20 blob are just as durable as cultists.

a vox makes them only 5 points cheaper than a squad of cultists which have better ws and bs. not saying militia are bad they are good with a vox and flamer fun.

we really need.the traitir guard for a decent troop tho

a 10 man objective graber militia squad, does not need a vox.

If the enemy shoots at them, so be it, they are wasting their shots.
If an enemy ignores them, well they can sit on a objective.

Not Online!!! wrote:

a 10 man objective graber militia squad, does not need a vox.

If the enemy shoots at them, so be it, they are wasting their shots.
If an enemy ignores them, well they can sit on a objective.

Side note.
Earthshaker battery maybe worth taking again
Down to 115 points so getting a basilisk then using the hull as a salamander and the cannon as a battery is still a possibility

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

a 10 man objective graber militia squad, does not need a vox.

If the enemy shoots at them, so be it, they are wasting their shots.
If an enemy ignores them, well they can sit on a objective.

Side note.
Earthshaker battery maybe worth taking again
Down to 115 points so getting a basilisk then using the hull as a salamander and the cannon as a battery is still a possibility

I mean you get guardsmen crew. so technically we have traitor guardsmen^^
i mean that is ok.

Personally the basilisk is still better since they are still tougher, but now earthshakers are atleast somewhat playable again. (i mean that is a huge leap forward in a army that atm is best desrcibed as nigh unplayable in a mono fashion)

I don't understand why Earthshaker carriages cost more points than Basilisks.

I mean, aside form the whole "it's FW so [Expletive Deleted] you, that's why" aspect of it all.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I don't understand why Earthshaker carriages cost more points than Basilisks.

I mean, aside form the whole "it's FW so [Expletive Deleted] you, that's why" aspect of it all.

because if there is something to abuse in any FW index TFG will use it and spam it (malefic lords f.e.) and it is easier to just cut it away / nerf it because those few of us that remain playing FW are irrelevant in the whole game population.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I don't understand why Earthshaker carriages cost more points than Basilisks.

I mean, aside form the whole "it's FW so [Expletive Deleted] you, that's why" aspect of it all.

because if there is something to abuse in any FW index TFG will use it and spam it (malefic lords f.e.) and it is easier to just cut it away / nerf it because those few of us that remain playing FW are irrelevant in the whole game population.

Let's pray to the dark God's that we will get a gws updated list soon. Maybe that 80 day chaos update for vigilus will give some love

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I don't understand why Earthshaker carriages cost more points than Basilisks.

I mean, aside form the whole "it's FW so [Expletive Deleted] you, that's why" aspect of it all.

because if there is something to abuse in any FW index TFG will use it and spam it (malefic lords f.e.) and it is easier to just cut it away / nerf it because those few of us that remain playing FW are irrelevant in the whole game population.

Let's pray to the dark God's that we will get a gws updated list soon. Maybe that 80 day chaos update for vigilus will give some love

I wouldn't bet on it but then again maybee we get lucky?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I don't understand why Earthshaker carriages cost more points than Basilisks.

I mean, aside form the whole "it's FW so [Expletive Deleted] you, that's why" aspect of it all.

because if there is something to abuse in any FW index TFG will use it and spam it (malefic lords f.e.) and it is easier to just cut it away / nerf it because those few of us that remain playing FW are irrelevant in the whole game population.

Let's pray to the dark God's that we will get a gws updated list soon. Maybe that 80 day chaos update for vigilus will give some love

I wouldn't bet on it but then again maybee we get lucky?

Crimson fists getting a supliment in white dwarf.
While not optimal we could see some love in here. I don't like to cart around multiple books for games but at least it's not paying for an entire supliment book and maybe get a poster in it as well would be soooooooo meta.
What I'm proposing (and hoping if gws is actually listening like they claim) is that they make a Astra militrum supliment that add a renegade and heretic regiment that changes imperium to chaos and can only be allied to chaos with the following additions.
1. The ability to choose a chaos God or undivided which adds the keyword and a unique warlord trait for each and regimental bonus (IE nurgle gets fnp 6+ or +1 toughness khorne gets +1 attack etc).
2. Swap any Lasguns for pistol and CC weapon.
3. Summon deamons.
4. A few unique units ie beastmen and rogue psychers from blackstone fortress.
5. So we don't get abused maybe at the start of the turn roll 2d6 and that is the moral for our army for the turn and/or since it's a regiment means we cannot take non regimental units like priests and commissionars which we can replace with enforcers but I guess we can still take index units maybe?
6. Relics like daemonic weapons which can replace Astra relics.
7. Stratagems to replace Astra ones maybe keep a few generic ones like take cover but a few unique ones for each God like nurgle get Revolting Regeneration (2CP): use at the end of your movement phase. A NURGLE unit regains d3 wounds or regains 1 slain model if none are wounded regained models are at 1 wound. Using <god> keyword means better synergy with other forces.
8. Also for balance guardsmen need to be increased to 5pts each but that should be a change in the overall codex not just us. It would also promote taking conscripts aka rabble over guardsmen and make us more than a cp battery.

If you like this idea please email them and blast the fb page until they listen and bring the main force of chaos back into the tabletop.
This could also be a template for mechanicus and dark mechanicus
Thoughts or ideas?

Tbf, let's wait for book two of vigilus, we might get surprised.
Guardsmen won't change upwards but militia getting random ld and worse armor would imo justify a 3ppm pricetag.

Are any of the Chaos (Astartes, Renegades, Daemons?) Lords of War or Flyers worth taking?

I'm trying to come up with a nice centerpiece model for my 2000p R&H, and I already have a knight as my "big unit" for my loyalists. I would kinda like to do some flying conversions, are Valkyries worth it just for their shooting power?

The only experience I have is with Zarakynel and no, She isn't worth the points.

Baneblade? Malcador/Macharius?

I'm planning to give my R&H a Crassus transport as a centrepiece, but the big downside with that is that unless you're Forging a Narrative no R&H unit can actually get inside it.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The only experience I have is with Zarakynel and no, She isn't worth the points.

Baneblade? Malcador/Macharius?

I'm planning to give my R&H a Crassus transport as a centrepiece, but the big downside with that is that unless you're Forging a Narrative no R&H unit can actually get inside it.

Baneblade, ehh

Malcador is no LOW and costs 2 x leman russ with half the firepower of 1, case in point the 2 leman russes also are nearly doubly as tough then the malcador. SO basically if you want something like that , just play an armored colon of leman russes. That beeing said, you can also go full cheapo bunker with it (give it 4 heavy stubbers for 8 pts and a bc, ) however it still has ROF issues.

Macharius suffers from low ROF, except when you pick the vulcan mega bolter. I do hope you like bullets, but at 350 plus they get pricy quick.

Minottuar, simply put if you want rule of cool yes, at 292 pts it comes with a 2d6 roll 4d6 pick the highest dices earthshaker and 2 heavy bolters. It is ridicously tough, gaining cover even though it is a steel behemoth, also comes with a nice 5+ invulnerable and t8 on 22 wounds. Big negatives, you can get 3 basilisks for it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ph34r wrote:
Are any of the Chaos (Astartes, Renegades, Daemons?) Lords of War or Flyers worth taking?

I'm trying to come up with a nice centerpiece model for my 2000p R&H, and I already have a knight as my "big unit" for my loyalists. I would kinda like to do some flying conversions, are Valkyries worth it just for their shooting power?

Kinda, i mean they are really cheap for transport capacity and have a decent ammount of dakka. (not to mention that since rocket pods are not heavy weapons they are also fairly accurate) they do however not bring in more points then they cost.