Dudeface wrote:
Tyran wrote:Dudeface wrote: I think then the real issue is that it's obvious to us, the paying consumer base, what would be well received and seemingly, they are not aware.
We are a niche forum mostly dominated by older players that still complain about Primaris Marines.
We are not the paying consumer base as far as
GW is concerned.
Well that's true, it's probably why theres more support seemingly for a
HH version here as that also is something that appeals to that demographic.
I think is a slightly simplistic view. As a setting
HH is really a zoomer thing not a grognard thing, that was the core demo who became obsessed with those books which became their entry into
40k, grognards remember when the
HH was a paragraph in the
CSM codex not the sprawling Space Rome soap opera plot tumour it has become, some (The sleeper contingent of people who love narratives and the idea of Space Rome over settings and
40k) got obsessed but most didn't. As a game,
HH 28mm seems to skew older but then that's partly because the core players were the
FW resin guys and because specialist games have always skewed older as those are the people with the most disposable income and among whom you will find the burnt out/finished in terms of buying new product for
40k looking for something new and different. Finally you have the retention of more wargamey rules from pre-8th. But as the legions of guys in comments sections impotently saying "Hey, just play heresy" to any complaint with the post 8th changes to the setting, Primaris or the rules, it's not enough to have better rules, nobody has ever played
40k for the rules.
Another view would be older players (Always your core market for specialist games) remember
BFG for the
40k version and would want that back not a
HH version because of a misguided assumption of most
HH 28mm players older, therefore older players really like
HH setting, therefore Battlefleet: Heresy has greater market appeal than Battlefleet: Gothic.
Ultimately there is a balance between justifying a setting so you only have to make one set of miniatures and the setting having such reduced appeal that this decision costs more than it saves. It made sense with the original Adeptus Titanicus where the Horus Heresy was first mentioned and the remake game but once you get into Epic territory and
GW's modern financial state and release schedule it fails for me. The appeal of Epic Warhammer is to have tiny versions (As the appeal of scale models in general) of the 28mm game and the freedom to paint them up however you like. I think
GW was trying to be too clever with
AI or rather they gave Specialist Games so few resources that they over-niched it, if that is even a word. I would even say the logo design and box art just didn't have so much appeal. But using art of the miniatures has been a staple of
FW/Specialist Games for over 20 decades due to less resources. All this combined with the ridiculous prices didn't do the game any favours. It's a niche game (Which is the say not
40k) so it needs to feel cheaper than
40k, a bargain, to thrive.
The central dilemma for
GW in using the
HH setting will be to either break the lore (Which they now really take very seriously, what a time to start doing that? RIP cool Necrons, you're derpy Space Egyptians forever now) by having gothic train battleships with a Heresy setting or not have them and have the iconic element of the whole thing absent. Ultimately I think going with
40k and just not releasing ships for the more niche armies would be a lot easier in my opinion. But it's hard to guess which armies that are niche as 28mm lines will be niche as
BFG ships.
Another thing to remember is finishing up with the Primaris line, their current business model is "the new stuff must flow" and they're run out of Primaris stuff (Space Marine releases are the most profitable releases, thus why they nuked the old marines and went in with the Primaris thing, something that wouldn't have done for other lines in a weird paradoxical these guys sell so much and are so iconic we're going to overwrite them) so I fully expect them to surprise with all kinds of new offerings including stuff like Space Hulk and
BFG. The new stuff must flow, always...
For anyone who knows the whole putting epic in
HH feels like the Sullivan and Gold scheme to take the London Olympic stadium as West Ham's new ground for cheap. Too clever and it backfired. I fear the same will be true for
BFG.
